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Comment on I love Mastodon and ActivityPub. But I think Nostr is going to win. Here's why.

On AP, because identities are tied to instances, the instance admin can kick the bigot and they’re gone for everyone, before many folk ever see it. And if there is an instance with admins that don’t deal with bigots, the admins can defederate from the entire instance.

Same with Nostr. Relay admins can ban users and relays who don’t have good moderation. The difference is, if you don’t agree with that ban, you can: connect to other relays and route around it AND keep using that relay because you like the content on it. And there’s no need to make a whole new account at another instance, login to it separately, etc.

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ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

In Nostr, your relay gets to make and enforce it’s own content policies just as easily as it does on AP

And yet they don’t.

If you as a user can connect to multiple relays, then most people will do that, making the act of an admin banning a bigot on one relay pointless, because the bigot will still get through on other relays, and once they’re blocked on enough relays, they’ll just make another throw away account. Which means most admins won’t bother acting except in the most egregious cases, leaving it up to the users to deal with their own blocks.

I agree, there needs to be an answer here that lets people keep their identities tied to them rather than an instance, but the nostr approach isn’t it. It just leads to everyone for themselves, which is fine for some people, but it’s exactly what many other folk were trying to escape by coming to the fediverse in the first place.

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- makeasnek@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  If you as a user can connect to multiple relays, then most people will do that, making the act of an admin banning a bigot on one relay pointless, because the bigot will still get through on other relays
  
  Just like AP, the bigot can join another instance, if an instance has bad moderation policy, your relay can block that instance entirely.
  
  Which means most admins won’t bother acting except in the most egregious cases, leaving it up to the users to deal with their own blocks.
  
  Admins can block along any spectrum of severity they want, just like AP.
  
  once they’re blocked on enough relays, they’ll just make another throw away account.
  
  They can do this in AP too. There’s no way to solve this unless we start requiring a passport photo with every account or a payment or something. Blocking naughty instances/relays is the best solution atm.
  
  Nostr does not reduce an instance admin’s ability to block bigots or the relays that host bigots. None of that is different than AP.
  
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  - ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Just like AP, the bigot can join another instance/relay, if an instance has bad moderation policy, your relay can block that instance/relay entirely.
    
    By your own admission, this doesn’t happen though. One relay is the same as the other, and that’s because the bigot can just use multiple relays as well, making the effort of an admin blocking them largely a waste of time.
    
    They can do this in AP too.
    
    They can’t though, because on AP, an instance that constantly spawns bigots with throw away accounts gets defederated, and that means that bigots have a barrier that doesn’t exist on Nostr. On nostr they can create unlimited accounts and use unlimited relays to broadcast their content, relying on the admins to block each and every account manually (which they generally won’t do, because what’s the point?), which ultimately leads to the end users having to play whack a mole with the bigots.
    
    There’s no way to solve this unless we start requiring a passport photo with every account or a payment or something
    
    I don’t have any answers for you. But I can tell you that I actively prefer APs implementation to Nostr’s because APs current implementation is safer.
    
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    makeasnek@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’m sorry Ada, but you’re just wrong here. I don’t know how you are missing my bolded sections explaining how nostr and AP work identically here.
    
    By your own admission, this doesn’t happen though. One relay is the same as the other, and that’s because the bigot can just use multiple relays as well, making the effort of an admin blocking them largely a waste of time
    
    Every relay sets their own moderation policy. They can block users, they can delete posts. They can block other relays and “de-federate” from them. Same as AP. Early in mastodon/lemmy/etc relays didn’t differentiate themselves much on moderation policies. As problems came up on some servers, they started to do that more, now there is a big difference between different instances. Same can and will happen on nostr, there is already some differentiation, just not as much as it’s a smaller platform.
    
    They can’t though, because on AP, an instance that constantly spawns bigots with throw away accounts gets defederated, and that means that bigots have a barrier that doesn’t exist on Nostr.
    
    Same thing happens in Nostr, that relay will get defederated. A bigot can still post to that relay, but their posts won’t be propagated to other relays. All the bigots will filter into the few relays that allow them to post. Same as AP.
    
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    Blaze@discuss.online ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Thank you for your insight. I feel like AP cares more about the community, while nostr is about the individual.
    
    Different kind of people will choose different approaches
    
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    dameoutlaw@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s not true. Bigots can go into web view and still see posts, they have alts on other instances. I’ve literally had friends that this happened to on Mastodon and the perp was making posts about still being able to see their content even while blocked. You run AP, it is not a secure protocol it was never intended to be.
    
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