InternetTubes@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Left and right are artificial, meaningless constructs, and I will never get tired of saying that. Reality is complex, but people are idiots. If there is any political division, it is more along the lines of the parties that try to follow their political goals within the structure of their constitution and design of their governments, and those that don’t mind breaking it to achieve their goals.
Left and right are artificial, meaningless constructs
Left and right are very useful construct… as a spectrum… on multiple axis.
It just seems completely meaningless, because so much here is tainted by the US perspective. And neither do they have a spectrum (with just two parties), nor multiple axis (again, two parties can’t represent nuanced opinion on different topics). In fact they don’t even have left and right, just right-wing and more far-right.
It is like trying to equate which Greek god your tribal deity fits into
Left and right are literally left and right… there is no up and down… forward or backward… literally sides of a f-ing line.
As a concept, it is even more useless across international lines, so I’m not sure why you suggest that it is due to a single country. “Just right-wing and more far-right”… yes, very “spectrum… on multiple axis”… … … An atypical example of just what I criticize, and I have no doubt they will do a flip and be the “left” when it also suits recognizing US Democrats as such.
All you’ve given me the impression of is that for them, you prioritize the similarity of their international policies, and that you identify critically of them under the “left” deity. That is, it implies more about your beliefs to refer to them as “just right-wing and more far-right” by how you try to fit them into the “left-right” pantheon than saying “X is right-wing and Y is more far-right”. Try to apply that to parties of a different nation and you’ll end up with very different impressions, unlike if, as I suggest, you tried to apply a difference between the parties that try to follow their political goals within the structure of their constitution and design of their governments and those that don’t mind breaking it to achieve their goals.
The whole terminology of left and right, it’s ego, manifested, a way to say “I’m right, you are wrong” without saying it for something that never easily reduces down to so terseness.
Honestly there’s the political compass (example here) that can sum up better political views for what matters. Though the left and right specter should be considered more regarding the economy, you have communists and nazis which in the freedoms are pretty much in the same place, while economy-wise they’re different.
What matters is completely subjective to you, and this chart is still arbitrary. If anyone tried to create a universal version of this compass that incorporated all parties, not only would they differ or find disagreement from someone else’s, you’d still be hard-pressed at really finding any political definition about any party that matters when placed on it.
Additionally, this chart carries the same sort of willingness to oversimplify politics into the left-right pantheon into forms of government - en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_forms_of_government . Neither the “left” or the “right” have a monopoly on calling the other authoritarian. It can help distinguish parties only subjectively and the context of knowing who is plotting the chart. Ask someone politically distinct to you from another country and non-Latin language to fill it in, and it would be very different.
Personally, I would say what matters to me more is the consistency of what they say to the reality, and while in regards to the political lines it might be fuzzy since both will claim hypocrisies of the other, in regards to the constitution and design of their governments I find that it is much more telling since the measures can be much more objective - but it also requires one to be much more informed.
Gecko@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This. I hate the whole left/right tribalism.
Like I know that it can be used to get a rough idea of what political motivations someone might have and I know that where my own ideologies would mostly fall in that inaccurate one-dimensional linear spectrum but ultimately it is too inaccurate to use it to classify everyone’s political motivation.
Worse it creates a whole us-vs-them divide. “Oh you aren’t right, when then you must be a commie”. “Oh you aren’t left, then you must be a fascist”. So you might consider yourself in a different position on a political spectrum and just see the differences to someone on the other end of a political spectrum even though you might have more in common then you think. Heck, if you are on complete opposite ends you might even have more in common then you think.
Ultimately, the focus should be less on left/right and more on individual policies. Like should healthcare be public or privatized, should be build another road or another train track here, etc
Why does political debate always have to turn into this tribalistic mud fight instead of proper discussion on how to best address the needs of citizens?
Eldritch@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Yeah, the western single line political spectrum is the most Fischer price useless shit ever designed. Left and right isn’t the problem. It’s the useless distorted political spectrum were taught to use. And our purposefully deficient political education. It has us treating a center right loosely pro social democracy party as if they’re extreme lefties and right wing authoritarians as if authoritarianism is just what happens when you go further right. It isn’t. But that’s how they justify their continued foray into anti-democratic authoritarianism.
Skavargen@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The two party system.
They built nonsensical coalitions to get votes, so people often find that their preferred party has positions they don’t like.
Then the primary system encourages the most extreme candidates for either party.
Then you have intentional amplification of the assholes like MTG.
Then you create an artificial us versus them mentality where someone on the other side is pure evil. Obviously the GOP is far and away worse at this, but it’s across the spectrum.
Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Because it gives more votes
danielton@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I agree. I don’t take sides at all because everybody raises a valid point.
But damn, I brought up that I didn’t take either side on a thread in another community and was blasted by people who are convinced that I support Trump being a rapist and bailing out billionaires because I said I didn’t like Biden either, and they act like I’m lying about my views because the only possible reason someone wouldn’t like a Democrat is if they are kissing Trump’s ass. It’s ridiculous. People pick Team Red or Team Blue in the States and refuse to listen to the other side.