Comment on [deleted]

TheOneCurly@lemmy.theonecurly.page ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• Rodrck@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I understand your point. However, if someone who has smoked for 30 years and is dying of lung cancer advises you not to smoke do you dismiss them, call them a hypocrite, and then start smoking?

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  • TheOneCurly@lemmy.theonecurly.page ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I actually think your hypothetical smoker is a great example of the opposite. Someone who lived it, understands the struggle, and ultimately regrets their choices is exactly who you want to hear from. It’s why the really cheesy don’t smoke PSAs don’t ring a chord with most people, they don’t feel genuine.

    I don’t think Thoreau is some enormous hypocrite, but I do absolutely understand why some people might feel bitter about it when they learn the greater context.

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    • Zorque@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The opposite of what? That was their point.

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      • mhague@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        It’s because cigarettes are addicting and so when someone harming themselves says not to do it, it makes sense.

        Someone proclaiming the virtues of simple living but the way they got there is unobtainable for anyone hearing the advice makes no sense.

        They’re both hypocrites on the surface but only one survives scrutiny.

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  • herrcaptain@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I not going to stop liking songs or movies or books simply because 20 years or more after they were created the artist gets canceled for saying or doing something stupid.

    It’s unfortunate, but if you did that you’d pretty much have to write off a good chunk of classic rock. Too many of those bands had underage girls as groupies, some to pretty extreme degrees. Here’s one article about Zeppelin that covers more ground than just them.

    Lately I’ve been having a tough time with the fact that a lot of musicians and actors I’ve really enjoyed have either proven themselves to be truly sketchy people, or have some serious (but not yet proven) allegations against them. I’m not even talking about the classic rockers, but a lot of stuff has come out about current acts over the last few years - Ryan Adams, the dude from Arcade Fire, Marilyn Manson, etc.

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    • Rodrck@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, anytime I hear people wanting to give up the art because of the artist I think you’d have to give up a lot of media and live a life without a lot of books, music, movies. Also, that’s just the stuff we know about. And there’s probably some evil person who had a hand in assembling my car but I’m not going to stop driving it because of that. I’m still going to rock to Led Zeppelin.

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      • herrcaptain@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Very good point about the car! Art is obviously more personal, but yeah, the fact is that anything that makes up our personal world has statistically benefited in some way by the acts of bad people.

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      • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Only the person who assembles your car doesn't have massive fame and fortune, which you contribute to by not only paying for their work, but not speaking out against whatever abhorrent thing they did you're choosing to overlook (while an assembly person isn't the one profiting from the sale of the car they built, nor do they have any power or reputation that lets them get away with whatever they want) to facilitate them continuing to abuse others.

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  • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Except smoking for 30 and getting cancer is in no way comparable to exploiting and completely depending on others' labour to amass wealth and power, only to claim yourself "independent" once you made it.

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    • Rodrck@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think you have a reading comprehension problem. The smoking/cancer analogy was not a comparison. It was used to state that you should not dismiss good advice simply because you think someone is a hypocrite.

      | exploiting and completely depending on others’ labour

      Ralph Waldo Emerson was Thoreau’s friend and he allowed him to stay on his land. How exactly is that exploitation? When your friend does you a favor or lends you something that in your mind is exploitation?

      My guess is that you have never read “Walden” or “Civil Disobedience” or “Life Without Principle”.

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