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Comment on Instances in the free fediverses should consider "transitive defederation" from instances that federate with Meta

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Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Activitypub is deliberately designed to allow disconnection as and when needed. Splitting apart is entirely the point, that’s why defederation exists.

I do not understand this idea that the fediverse was always meant to be some kumbayah peace & love positive vibes only space and that utilising defederation is going to wound its delicate soul.

No. Federation is a system with teeth; if we defang it for the sake of being nice to everyone then it won’t be able to achieve its promise of freedom from corporate overlords. Independence and self determination is the point, not being chill and cool and like, totally copacetic with all mankind, man.

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Chozo@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Right, but what this will end up doing is effectively creating two distinct Fediverses; one with Meta and all the users, and one that will sequester themselves off to an even smaller corner of the internet than before. That's not a healthy outcome. And if all the EEE(E?) rants and ravings people have been posting lately are to be believed, that'll only make these smaller communities even less able to resist Meta's influence.

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- Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You said:
  
  ActivityPub is meant to connect communities, not split them apart.
  
  This is just blatantly wrong. I was adressing this and only this.
  
  I don’t know if I agree with transitive defederation, I did not take a position on it, and I don’t know why you’re trying to argue it with me except that you know this kumbayah crap isn’t a position you can argue.
  
  I just know BS when I smell it, and I’m sick of smelling this particular kind.
  
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  - Chozo@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Okay, but that's a disingenuous argument to be making. Yes, AP is designed with the options to block instances, but that's not the core function it's built around. That's a failsafe, not the selling feature that would make communities adopt it. Communities can already exist without federating with other platforms: by running their own, non-AP platform in the first place. The developers of AP didn't say "I want to make a protocol built around blocking connections".
    
    Nobody buys a car for its brakes, but you still need to have them for safety purposes. Defederation is pumping said brakes. It's a necessary feature, but not the main point of the car.
    
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    Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    A car without brakes is a death trap. You use brakes exactly in proportion to how much you use the accelerator. Your analogy is garbage. It’s like saying “you have a house for the space inside, not for the roof overhead”. It’s nonsensical.
    
    Federation and defederation are two sides of the same coin. The one is the shadow of the other. Interpersonal boundaries are necessary for healthy relationships IRL, and they mainly come into play when telling people no, not when telling them yes. AP was absolutely designed with disconnection in mind. We know that because it’s a core function. If you want to tell me otherwise then you need to give me a quote, and then explain to me why I should care what the designer thinks anyway.
    
    Pretending federation is about connection and not disconnection is disingenuous. It’s meaningless fluff that as far as I can tell is perfectly suited to convincing people to let their guard down, and may well have been designed for that purpose.
    
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haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I have no idea why people are downvoting you but I agree fully.

A lot of folks here dont have much experience with social situations and life in general and it shows.

Studies show that big corporations behave like psychoaths. Lack of remorse, lack of empathy, hostile demeanor and impulsiveness.

Would you invite someone like this to your home and expect everything to be all right afterwards?

In the case of meta its also a psychopath with enough money and lawyers that they could murder you in cold blood and wouldn’t even go to jail so to speak.

Why would we federate with them just to defederate when (not if) they start pushing their agenda through? Ads, one way federation etc.

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- orgrinrt@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Well, I might have an idea why it’s downvoted so.
  
  While I agree with the sentiment, and as such, upvoted to boost the message, it’s still very combative and needlessly passive-aggressive with its kumbayah and the stereotypical hippie talk, “man”, which really just annoyed and cringed myself too.
  
  But to each their own. I still like to boost if the sentiment is valuable as a pov at least, here I happen to also agree. But the passive-aggressive tone is really uncalled for.
  
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  - haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I agree that combative tone does not make sense in conveying a message and more hinders than anything. But I have done so myself and probably will fall into the same trap here and there. I would argue that it is a good thing to tell someone “I agree in principle but I think you should reconsider your words to strip them of divisive content” or the like.
    
    Psychology tells us that most people mean good, sometimes making the worst mistakes that produce terrible outcomes.
    
    Alas, thank you for elaborating. :)
    
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