Comment on The first EV with a lithium-free sodium battery hits the road in January

• sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  A quick wikipedia read implies that sodium-ion batteries could be half or less the cost vs lithium. Also this:

  Another factor is that cobalt, copper and nickel are not required for many types of sodium-ion batteries, and more abundant iron-based materials work well in Na+ batteries.

  That’s probably most of why it’s cheaper, and it’s also way less damaging to the environment if they truly can be made from mostly sodium and iron.

  I’m more concerned about the safety aspects. It seems there are two main types:

  • aqueous - quite safe, but also likely very heavy per unit of energy
  • carbon - high risk (probably similar to lithium)

  That’s a big reason why I and probably many others aren’t interested in the current batch of EVs. Yeah they’re pretty safe, but they’re quite violent when they fail. I’d probably buy a sodium-ion EV if it could get 100-150 miles range reliably. That would be absolutely sufficient for my commute, even in the winter, and it would make a fantastic “around town” car when I’m not working.

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  • wikibot@lemmy.world [bot] ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

    Sodium-ion batteries (NIBs, SIBs, or Na-ion batteries) are several types of rechargeable batteries, which use sodium ions (Na+) as its charge carriers. In some cases, its working principle and cell construction are similar to those of lithium-ion battery (LIB) types, but it replaces lithium with sodium as the cathode material. Sodium belongs to the same group in the periodic table as lithium and thus has similar chemical properties. In other cases (such as aqueous Na-ion batteries) they are quite different from Li-ion batteries. SIBs received academic and commercial interest in the 2010s and early 2020s, largely due to the uneven geographic distribution, high environmental impact, and high cost of lithium. An obvious advantage of sodium is its natural abundance, particularly in saltwater. Another factor is that cobalt, copper and nickel are not required for many types of sodium-ion batteries, and more abundant iron-based materials work well in Na+ batteries. This is because the ionic radius of Na+ (116 pm) is substantially larger than that of Fe2+ and Fe3+ (69–92 pm depending on the spin state), whereas the ionic radius of Li+ is similar (90 pm). Similar ionic radii of lithium and iron result in their mixing in the cathode material during battery cycling, and a resultant loss of cyclable charge. A downside of the larger ionic radius of Na+ is a slower intercalation kinetics of sodium-ion electrode materials.The development of Na+ batteries started in the 1990s. After three decades of development, NIBs are at a critical moment of commercialization. Several companies such as HiNa and CATL in China, Faradion in the United Kingdom, Tiamat in France, Northvolt in Sweden, and Natron Energy in the US, are close to achieving the commercialization of NIBs, with the aim of employing sodium layered transition metal oxides (NaxTMO2), Prussian white (a Prussian blue analogue) or vanadium phosphate as cathode materials.Electric vehicles using sodium-ion battery packs are not yet commercially available. However, CATL, the world’s biggest lithium-ion battery manufacturer, announced in 2022 the start of mass production of SIBs. In February 2023, the Chinese HiNA Battery Technology Company, Ltd. placed a 140 Wh/kg sodium-ion battery in an electric test car for the first time, and energy storage manufacturer Pylontech obtained the first sodium-ion battery certificate from TÜV Rheinland.

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• quo@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • bstix@feddit.dk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Used car batteries can be reused for storage, so it’s going to require a cost analysis to determine what makes most sense for storage solutions. It’s great if they can use a cheaper sodium battery but we also don’t want to just waste the second hand lithium batteries. It makes sense to use both. At least until there are better recycling options. Also with solid state batteries hopefully coming up soon, it’ll still make sense to find use for the current batteries.

    Ideally, home backups should be able to use any battery. Standards for compatibility would be nice.

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