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MagicShel@programming.dev 6 months agoI’ve got twenty five years in and I know how good I’ve got it. I may not always be able to get the job I want, but I don’t ever have to worry about not working. That’s an incredible luxury. But also, unfortunately it really sucks training up completely green developers. They often contribute negative value to the team and then once you finally get them to the point where you can start relying on them, they leave or your team gets broken up. That’s not the fault of young developers at all, but it’s just a reality we all have to navigate. I do enjoy working with enthusiastic and curious people, and experience is certainly no guarantee of that. And I like having new perspectives and skills, even if I hate to crush their expectations with the reality of development. We currently can’t use fucking lambdas because they aren’t supported on our ancient version of Spring.
popcar2@programming.dev 6 months ago
I’ve heard this a lot and I get it, but I feel like there’s a breaking point where most juniors just won’t put up with it and there will be a drought of genuinely good talent in the industry. Personally the vast majority of people I know have given up on working whatever they wanted to work in (Embedded systems, cybersecurity, gaming, etc) and just became web developers. Ironically you catch companies that don’t hire juniors say things like “It’s so hard to find anyone that cares” or recruiters saying hiring for one spot takes months because they can’t find the perfect candidate. Something has to change imo, the path should become clearer than telling everyone to get 5 years of experience then come back when they’re ready.
MagicShel@programming.dev 6 months ago
I completely agree. The experience sucks. I almost think programming would be better to follow a skilled trade path like electricians or something with apprenticeships and the like. The current system isn’t working for anyone, really. I mean I suppose it works for people like me but that’s not sustainable.
pinchcramp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
The thing is, it works like this in certain countries. At least in Switzerland and Germany it is possible to make an apprenticeship as a programmer. This means there is a structured path for the vocational education that must meet certain regulatory criteria. Normally this takes 3-4 years to finish and includes both, working at a company as well as visiting vocational school. College is often done after finishing one’s apprenticeship to broaden the understanding of more complex or advanced topics like security, architecture, project management, advanced math etc.
I don’t understand why this system is not more common in other places. Programming (not CS) is very much like a craft and to large degrees can be taught as/similar to one.
MajorHavoc@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You’re exactly right, and there’s actually already such a drought. We had this same conversation 15 years ago and it doesn’t feel like we’ve made much progress.
Absolutely, it must change. We need to find ways to do better.