But doesn’t relativity explicitly state that c is the speed of light in a vacuum, and travelling through other mediums explicitly changes and is explained by relativity?
Comment on Speediest little fella.
trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months agoLight doesn’t travel the same speed in water or glass as in a vacuum.
In a medium, light usually does not propagate at a speed equal to c; further, different types of light wave will travel at different speeds. The speed at which the individual crests and troughs of a plane wave (a wave filling the whole space, with only one frequency) propagate is called the phase velocity vp. A physical signal with a finite extent (a pulse of light) travels at a different speed. The overall envelope of the pulse travels at the group velocity vg, and its earliest part travels at the front velocity vf.
there1snospoon@ttrpg.network 10 months ago
sushibowl@feddit.nl 10 months ago
Not really no. Special relativity explains the relationship between space and time. General relativity expands on this to account for gravitation.
One of the postulates (i.e. assumptions) of relativity is that the speed of light in vacuum is the same for all observers. But the theory doesn’t actually require any particular value for c, it only needs it to be constant. And it doesn’t explain the behavior of light in a medium at all.
In fact, relativity doesn’t explain the mechanism by which light interacts at all, that is the domain of Quantum Electro Dynamics.
ziggurism@lemmy.world 10 months ago
the speed of light expressed in units of distance per time, is a dimensionful quantity so it probably doesn’t mean anything to say some theory does or does not predict a value for it. The value is entirely determined by how big you choose your yardsticks and sundials to be, which is arbitrary convention.
It is only meaningful to talk about theoretical predictions of the values of constants if they are dimensionless, like the fine structure constant.
However relativity does suggest as a natural point of view that space and time are just orthogonal directions in a unified spacetime. In this point of view, relativity gives you the option of measuring your timelike and spacelike coordinates with the same yardstick (which you may still choose arbitrarily). And then relativity does predict its value. It’s 1. No units.
there1snospoon@ttrpg.network 10 months ago
Wow that is so interesting. So am I understanding that relativity explains space, time and gravity’s interactions with one another, while quantum science explains interactions with much smaller objects like matter?
trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I don’t know. I thought I used to know.
wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 10 months ago
This is how I feel every time I touch any non-basal physics topic.
I swear this made sense once upon a time…
Neato@kbin.social 10 months ago
That's light as an aggregate wave. Photons, actual light, always travel at c. What's happening in a medium is the rapid absorption and readmission of photons. The probability of admission is based on structure of material causing things like lens or mirrors to work.
You can think of it as the photons having to jump between platforms before the can continue running at c.
Entropius@lemmy.world 10 months ago
That’s an intuitive model, but unfortunately it doesn’t have the advantage of actually being correct. Photons are not being absorbed and reemitted. See here for why: lemmy.world/comment/5444224
Neato@kbin.social 10 months ago
That is wrong. Stochastic yes. Photons emission is probabilistic. Destructive interference causes emission to overwhelming follow classical wave theory. Here's a better explanation with a neat graphic.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/466/what-is-the-mechanism-behind-the-slowdown-of-light-photons-in-a-transparent-medi
Entropius@lemmy.world 10 months ago
It sounds like you’re conflating different concepts. A stochastic process like absorption/reemission would blur the light, so that’s not it. And the linked explanation is basically correct (in classical physics at least), but it doesn’t corroborate what you originally claimed as that’s not necessarily requiring absorbing anything. Photons can jiggle the charged particles in glass and get them to make new phase shifted light despite not being absorbed.
youtu.be/YW8KuMtVpug
youtu.be/CiHN0ZWE5bk
trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
Now I’m not sure how reflective telescopes work.
TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 10 months ago
reject reflectors return to long tubes Image
Neato@kbin.social 10 months ago
Interference in matters structure causes classical wave like behavior.
trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I find so much of physics to be very intuitive and then you have light.