Comment on Am I crazy, or are Americans going insane?
PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 11 months ago
American here.
Uhhh…I’m not really sure who you’re talking to on the American left about Joe Biden, but few people really like him as a president, despite his effectiveness.
Also, do you understand why 95% of the people in your life believe what they do? It’s easy to call people stupid when you don’t understand where they’re coming from.
CommanderM2192@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t need to understand where they’re coming from if they want to cut social programs, lower taxes on the rich, support societies that would happily execute gay people, etc.
Even though I don’t need to understand, I do actually. When it comes to the people on the right, it’s mostly people I’ve known from growing up in a religious family and from spending a lot of time doing work in factories. They’re bigoted zealots who think that the real problem with Millennials and Gen Z is that they just don’t want to work anymore. And if they just wanted to work and put in the effort they could all be retiring with nice cars and mansions.
As for the people I know on the left, it’s not as many who are completely insane. But it’s still most of them. People who voted Hillary because “it was her turn!” or even voted Obama because “I feel bad for black people, so he needed to be president no matter what” (those are literal fucking quotes, I shit you not). Not only that, but they’ll talk about how dangerous the rightwing is and how they want to overthrow the country, and then the very next topic of conversation can be about how they don’t trust themselves with a gun and are offended at the suggestion that they should arm themselves.
If you think with either of these I’m talking about you and you’re offended, you need to reevaluate your morals.
PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 11 months ago
Why does everyone think this? Because you’re wrong. Everybody is wrong about this. 100% of people that believe they don’t need to understand the epistemology of people they disagree with, and especially of people they hate, need to pull their head out of their asses.
These people are dumb. Period.
Yeah, I don’t trust myself with a gun. I would definitely shoot someone in a road rage incident, which are becoming increasingly common. Or I might commit suicide because this country makes me so fucking depressed.
CommanderM2192@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I think this because I’ve spent over a decade of my life trying to understand where people come from and getting nowhere with helping them. I’ve read the scripture they share with me and they just ignore rebuttals and tell me I have “an unteachable spirit” or I “can’t understand their gospel”. I’ll listen to the podcasts of political thinkers they listen to and hear absolutely nothing of substance, nothing that actually provides a foundation for their beliefs beyond “wouldn’t it be nice if we had X”.
The only progress I’ve ever made is by recently telling people they have no clue what they’re talking about and calling them a dipshit or asshole where appropriate. It’s insane. They don’t care about studies, stats, facts, whatever. No attempt at rational debate changes their mind in any capacity. But having the “quiet and patient” person in their life snap at them seems to do something at least.
catreadingabook@kbin.social 11 months ago
First of all, nice bait, looks delicious, think I'll chow down.
This mindset sounds closer to the problem than to the solution. Do you truly believe that the best way to interact with an extremist is to blindly judge them, then assume that they will question their entire worldview because one person, who has made no good faith effort to understand them, decides to call them names?
Many extremists, though perhaps not most, feel the way they do because they honestly believe they are doing the right thing. They listen to the lived experiences of people they trust and discount the words of people they do not. The blind judgment of others only 'proves' to them that it's all one big conspiracy, everyone else are sheep, and that they are the only ones who can think for themselves.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sounds like you’re talking to koolaid drinkers and religious, not the politically motivated. Only religious morons and the painfully immature treat “the truth” as an absolute thing you know or don’t know. ESPECIALLY in polotics, where EVERY choice has positive and negative consequences to balance.
Trying to get an informed political opinion from a religious zealot is about as useful as getting your calculus homework finished by toddlers…
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You HAVE to understand wherre they’re coming from, because that’s EXACTLY how you fight against useful idiots.
Most of the people you will talk to are NOT experts in … well, anything political at LEAST. If you start condemning people for something they probably haven’t even thought that deeply about, then you are just as guilty as them of ignoring nuance.
If you’re going to condemn people for the natural conclusions of their ignorant actions, then you should be for trying xhildren as adults who accidentally shot a family member. After all, it’s about consequences, not intent, right?
bstix@feddit.dk 11 months ago
I don’t know if you necessarily have to understand them, but you should still ask them about it, just to make them think about it.
Lots of people form their opinions out of their ass without ever being confronted with why they have hat opinion.
You don’t have to like these people, but you do need to co-exist. That’ll be difficult if they are allowed to dig themselves into their trenches without any resistance until they start flinging shit at each other.
The only way to avoid it getting worse is to engage in dialogue and keep questioning them. Don’t argue, don’t tell them what is right or wrong, just keep asking “why do you think that?”
bundes_sheep@lemmy.one 11 months ago
The other side of that coin is to allow people to question your beliefs and to actually think about things when they do.
Those two things together is what will really help, imo.
bstix@feddit.dk 11 months ago
They will ask eventually. I just don’t want to force anything on anyone
I believe that it is impossible to teach anyone anything, but it is possible for anyone to learn anything.
Understanding happens when someone thinks and reaches out.
CommanderM2192@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I have asked them about it, and it generally goes one of two ways depending on which way they identify.
Rightwing: “Because it’s in the Bible.”
Leftwing: “I don’t know, I just think that.”
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 11 months ago
If a leftist cannot explain to you the reasonings behind their stances… They are a TERRIBLE leftist. Are you shre you’ve actually talked to people?!
bstix@feddit.dk 11 months ago
Those are good answers. Not for understanding, but because it shows that they admittedly don’t really know, so they’ll now have to think about it.
It would be tempting to keep questioning why they believe in the bible or believe in something they don’t know, but that would likely only result in them getting angry and potentially digging further into their trench.
Don’t push them. You’ve already sown the first seed. Just step back and let them think. Maybe address the issue a while later and hear if they’ve become more open to alternative takes ln the issue. That’s the entire point.
art@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This feels like satire.
CommanderM2192@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I wish it was. You want another dumb reason I’ve heard for voting Hillary? “She reminded me of my mom, so I trust her.”