Comment on [deleted]
drekly@lemmy.world 11 months agoI just asked what you believe about that specific topic. You said they have no right to it.
But they say historically they were there long before Ukraine was ever a thing and it’s rightfully their land, so they’re taking it by force.
So do you believe that Israel has a right to the land in Palestine due to their historic ties?
Zippy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
No I believe they have a right to defend it due to the desire of those people on it. But furthermore to this, they also occupied and lived peacefully on it at one time in the past as well. Giving them as much right as anyone.
Russia on the other hand has tried to annex the Ukraine region in past but that does not mean it is owned by Russia. So no Russia can fuck off. Ukraine is owned by the people who have spoken. Same as Israel. Palestine has lands and is owned by the people there. They wish to expand thru the use of terror then those engaging in that tactic are subject to loss of their lives. Unfortunately these fuckers have no qualms about using their own people as shields.
Ideologies that use violence to gain power are as legitimate as entities that use violence to remove them from power. After all it is the rules they enacted. Ultimately it comes down to what entity would be the most fair to the people there and represent the majority of the wishes of the people there.
drekly@lemmy.world 11 months ago
“at one time in the past”
As did the Russians on the land of Ukraine.
17th and 18th Centuries
Parts of what is now Ukraine were incorporated into the Russian Empire, especially after the partitions of Poland in the late 18th century. However, other parts remained under Polish or Ottoman rule. The Russian Empire did exert considerable influence over these territories, often implementing Russification policies.
19th Century
Throughout the 19th century, the concept of a Ukrainian identity persisted, albeit under the umbrella of the Russian Empire for many regions. Some Ukrainians sought greater autonomy or even independence.
Early 20th Century and Soviet Period
After the Russian Revolution, Ukraine briefly declared independence but was soon incorporated into the Soviet Union as one of its constituent republics. While it was part of the USSR, Ukraine had its own Communist Party, constitution, and administrative structures, but Moscow held ultimate authority.
It wasn’t until 1991 that Ukraine was an independent country.
So is Russia allowed to take back the land they feel is theirs, and technically was, 30 years ago?
Meanwhile, “Israel” hadn’t existed since around 63 BCE when it fell under Roman control. It wasn’t until after WW1 and especially 1947 that Jewish people of the Zionist movement decided to reclaim their religious roots and move back to the area en masse.
So is Israel allowed to take back the land they feel is theirs, and technically was, 2086 years ago?
Zippy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Did you read what I said? Who ruled what and when is pretty much negated and means little. You trying to use your bullshit argument that Russia at one time had interests in Ukraine this should be allowed to use force and terror to take back control pretty much is a losing argument all around.
It is the people who get to decide and to a lesser extent, who the rest of the world supports.
But if you try and use a false argument the Palestinians were there first, I will counter that will an earlier version when Jews occupied that lands.
drekly@lemmy.world 11 months ago
So you’re saying yes, Israel can forcefully remove Palestinians because they were there first?
Therefore Russia can forcefully remove Ukrainians because they were there first?