Comment on Just wanted to thank this community for helping me have the best birthday I've had in years
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year agoThat depends on what your issue with her is I guess. What about her didn’t you like? Or rather what do you hope they’d change or work on?
Infynis@midwest.social 1 year ago
She was like the textbook definition of a Mary Sue. Weird name, unique powers, family relation to a well-loved character from a previous series, no flaws other than ones that are supposed to make her more endearing, etc.
Really the main thing I’d want changed is real flaws and emotions beyond dislike of authority
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
I really don’t agree with your characterization there.
Her name might be weird to us but this is an alternate future with aliens so a girl being called Michael is not that strange. Nor would I say it’s a calling card of a Mary Sue. She doesn’t have any unique powers at all either. She’s just flat human woman. Being related to a previous character also isn’t really the hallmark of a Mary Sue. As for no flaws, she has an enormous amount. I would also say that she doesn’t even have a dislike of authority. She has a problem with managing her own authority and overstepping others. When given an order she’ll comply, mostly. There are a handful of instances in which she doesn’t and there are massive repercussions for that. Her flaws run pretty deep. Emotional insecurity and emotional instability due to her upbringing. A problem with not knowing when to stop to the point that she has endangered herself or the crew on a few occasions. She makes rash decisions. She doesn’t ask for help when she needs it and she often rejects help when it’s given. She will take on responsibility for herself that is unnecessary. Spock even makes fun of that in Season 2.
I also disagree with the characterization of ‘Mary Sue’ because she’s not the sole person to fix everything. She has never been the sole person to fix everything. She is a person who fixes things but she’s a part in the machine. Throughout Season 3 and 4 you get to see a lot more of the other crew and spend time with them instead of Michael, but they were still there making the massive decisions that made an impact in Season 1 and 2. We just didn’t know them as well. If anything, Michael is the antithesis of a Mary Sue simply because she’s the person who causes so many problems in Season 1.
Honestly I don’t think you’d like Season 3 or 4 if you already seem to hate every fiber of the character.
Infynis@midwest.social 1 year ago
I appreciate the detailed analysis. For me, it seemed like we were supposed to empathize with all the horrible decisions she made at the beginning of season 1, which is what I considered her flaws that were meant to be endearing. I’m glad to hear that’s not the case. I never made it that far; I was at the point where they had to take a bunch of snapshots of the Klingon ship, maybe a bit further, but it’s been a while…
She did have special powers though. In that regard, I was talking about her telepathic connection with her and Spock’s dad, which kind of felt like it came out of nowhere.
As long as I’m not actually supposed to like her in the beginning, I think it’ll be worth giving Discovery another shot. With how good SNW and Lower Decks have been, plus what I’ve heard about Picard s3 (though I haven’t seen it yet, because I’m doing a TNG rewatch first), I’m hopeful
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
You are supposed to empathize with her to an extent, but not fully. She fucked up and she owns it and you’re supposed to at least connect with the idea of making mistakes. Season 1 is extremely rough but then again so was every other Trek that came before. Season 2 got better but it wasn’t until Season 3 that things started to find its footing. A lot of people hate the answer as to the season long mystery of 3 but again I genuinely don’t get why.
I will say though, she did not have those special powers, it was Sarek. She can’t do that with anyone else or even initiate it with Sarek. Sarek has to be the one to do it.
I mean, it doesn’t seem like you’re supposed to like her to me. She’s unbearable at the start. Smug and arrogant and frankly a shitty person. But she has a lot of growth of season 1 and that only continues on.