Comment on Why Ukraine will not – and should not – give up the Donbas or any other territory
Lowleekun@hexbear.net 5 days agoBeneficial how? They are indebting themselves one loan at a time, having to give off bonus like mineral access on top of it from time to time. What is the end goal? Zelensky probably would say to get back all conquered land. And while that is understandable, how do we suppose to make Russia agree? They can and will keep on going much longer.
Like don’t get me wrong. I get why a peace without land back seems moot to many people but the alternative is war without land back.
And capitulation would entail agreeing to any demands made. That is what happens when there is no fight left on either side. When do you suppose that happens? Especially considering the war in Iran, which seems pretty beneficial to Russia if you ask me.
stephen01king@piefed.zip 5 days ago
In what way would the Iran war benefit Russia outside of increasing the profit margin of their oil exports? Iran is now using up their supply of Shahed drones in the war, which means they would be less likely to have enough to sell to Russia. It just sounds like another blow to their ability to continue waging war against Ukraine.
On the other hand, can Russia keep this up longer than Ukraine is willing to fight? Given that one side is protecting their own sovereignty while the other is doing it for the imperialistic ambitions of the few at the top, I’d say they can’t unless the EU or the US forces an end to the war. Even if you prove that they can, you still need to weigh this over the fact that giving Putin the land will only embolden him to continue his invasion after he rebuilds his army.
Lowleekun@hexbear.net 5 days ago
Less arms sales to Ukraine and higher profit for Russia’s main source of income makes it look like a win over less shahed drones but I might be wrong.
I don’t see how and why Putin would give back Donbass and Crimea and I don’t see Ukraine taking it back. Russia simply has the material basis for waging war far longer. Ukraine is already bled dry, financially and personally.
If Ukraine is not ready to defend itself any longer it also is pretty late fore a ceasefire deal don’t you think?
stephen01king@piefed.zip 5 days ago
Well, less Shahed drones also means Russia has to rely more on expensive ballistic missiles for the foreseeable future. Whether the balance tilts to Ukraine’s favour or Russia would require more in-depth research than I can perform.
You’ll have to provide some sources when saying Ukraine is already bled dry. That’s not something I can accept at face value.
I doubt Ukraine is looking for a simple ceasefire. And me saying until Ukraine is unwilling to fight does not mean until they are unable to defend themselves any longer.
Obviously, there are competent people in the Ukrainian military that can determine when continuing the fight is more disadvantageous for the long term. That point has not been reached yet.
Lowleekun@hexbear.net 5 days ago
Russia has increased its drone production. Not sure by how much but I doubt this will put Ukraine in an advantageous position.
On spending I found this interesting overview. uiamp.org/…/economics-russian-ukrainian-war-2022-… I have not checked it validity. The point is just to show what a huge economic burden the war is on Ukraine compared to Russia.
The question really is not what these two countries are looking for, as both are not very realistic. The question to me is: What and how can an end be realistically achieved, considering their opposed goals. I really don’t see how Ukraine’s position gets any better.
Maybe those military people could judge when a ceasefire makes sense. Politicians however have a mind of their own and personal gains often come before the well being of their people. Who makes the decision?