It’s manageable if you pass along these rules to the LLM. I’ve actually had more success asking the LLM than giving code reviews to some interns, and even someone who coded professionally before.
Comment on Astral to Join OpenAI
TheAgeOfSuperboredom@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
I find that Python requires a fair bit of discipline to keep it readable, and I’ve seen some very unreadable code written by people. Vibe coding with Python’s dynamic nature seems like a match made in hell.
eager_eagle@lemmy.world 3 days ago
badgermurphy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Right, but aren’t the interns in training specifically to get better at that than they are today, and eventually surpass the abilities of the AI?
These LLMs are at best OK at this stuff, and are not improving at any sort of convincing rate. If you don’t train anyone to be better than the LLM, the retirement of your generation will make the whole industry you’re in at best, OK at its job.
eager_eagle@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Ok, I’m not suggesting replacing humans with AI and I despise companies trying to do this unsustainable practice.
With that out of the way, I’ll restate that LLMs follow some rules more reliably than humans today. It’s also easier to give feedback when you don’t have to worry about coming across as a pedantic prick for pointing out the smaller things.
On your point that LLMs are not improving; well, agents and tooling are definitely improving. 6 months ago I would need to babysit an agent to implement a moderately complex feature that touches a handful of files. Nowadays, not as much. It might get some things wrong, but usually because it lacks context rather than ability. They can write tests, run them, and iterate until it passes, then I can just look at the diff to make sure the tests and solution makes sense. Again, something that would fail to yield decent results just in the last year.
badgermurphy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
When I refer to improvements, I mean fundamental improvements to the underlying technology, which appear to be at a stubborn plateau.
I below be he improvements you’re referring to are better guardrails. They are still improving the interface with regard to context and scope, as those functionalities are separate from the underlying technology, bolted on top of it to keep it on task and more continually aware of and operating within the defined context.
Underneath, though, each new model appears to be a refactoring of the previous one to get different sometimes better results, but the methodology is the same, and its strengths and weaknesses remain largely unchanged.
So, essentially what my objection to this practice is this:
This technology has led to companies leaning harder on their current people to get more done with the same amount of time with AI tools. That doesn’t seem to be successful at any sort of scale so far, but that’s the plan nonetheless. As a result, new talent is coming into the industry at a much slower rate than before–hiring is on hold while everyone waits to see if these tools really can replace bodies in the workforce in a serious way (again, super inconclusive at this point).
So, looking forward even one single generation, we will have dramatically fewer experts in the field than before, because so many fewer people were able to start in that field last generation. Since the need for programmers is greater every year, either these tools will be a wild success and meet all these business demands, or there will be a crisis of demand with no easy ways out.
Since both of the foreseeable outcomes are detrimental to the workers themselves, what and who exactly are we rooting for? I think that most people, given the choice, would choose the existing cycle with a proven track record, rather than gamble on something so uncertain with no clear economic benefit to the workers themselves.
galaxy_nova@lemmy.world 3 days ago
This is true although that’s what enforcing strict typing from your linter is supposed to help with. I think it’s partially an issue that you can kinda just type what you think and not everyone thinks efficiently/ programmer-y
TheAgeOfSuperboredom@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
Agreed! I think both linting and type checking are extremely important to Python, but it’s also an extra step that far too many people just don’t take. And honestly, I used to get tripped up sometimes with setting up Python tooling before I started using uv.
Unfortunately I also have to work with the occasional Python script that someone just slapped together, and that’s something far too easy to do in Python. It does kind of remind me of vibe coding. Initial velocity seems high, but if you’re not thinking about it, long term maintenance tanks.
That’s not to say Python is bad, and there is certainly a lot of good Python code out there too. But it’s a language that does make it easy to make a mess, which will probably be compounded by LLMs.