Comment on An old excuse
CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz 4 days agoWe can flip that argument though: “These people keep trying to make nukes to stop me from bombing them. Maybe if I stop bombing them and instead try to make something like the old Iran nuclear agreement, they won’t see a massive need for nukes”.
The thing is, the US+Israel have shown time and again that they will conduct bombings and assassinations on Iranian (and other) soil regardless of whether the country in question is actually anywhere close to building nukes. So the idea “maybe we should stop trying to build nukes” just falls flat on its face once the US+Israel bombs you anyway, which is basically what’s happening here.
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
I’m happy you’re seeing the light :)
Well, no.
Can you give any examples of either Israel or the US bombing Iran or something like you describe that wasn’t linked to their nuclear program?
For clarity: impotent calls to attack Iran have always been there: from inside the US (remember McCain singing), from Israel (well, Iran is sponsoring the ‘freedom fighters’ in direct conflict with Israel for decades) and even from Saudi Arabia (which was also confirmed in Cablegate).
But can you give any examples of the US or even Israel directly attacking them since like the 80’s?
Claims from Bibi with a cartoon that Iran is working on nukes: no attack Strong indications that they are, indeed, working to acquire nukes: Stuxnet, assassinations, negotiations Clear proof that they are ramping up production of highly enriched uranium: negatiotions Refusal to stop their production: attack + pickachu
CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz 3 days ago
There are two primary points here:
Just the past couple of years there has been an assassination of a high-ranking officer in Iran, and iirc a bombing of their consulate in Beirut. None of these are related to the nuclear program, they weren’t even claimed to be related to the nuclear program. I also mentioned other countries: the whole “Iraq has WMD’s”-thing comes to mind.
Regardless of the above, both the US and Israel have signed the UN charter, explicitly stating that the will not attack other countries just to get their way. Doing that puts them on the same level as russia when it comes to respecting international law. Saying “you should have done as I said and you wouldn’t have gotten beat up” doesn’t justify beating someone up.
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
A1: if Iran is sending members of their military to oversee weapon shipments to groups that attack Israel, or to coördinate with groups that attack Israel, don’t you see that that’s a little bit different from “we’re just peacefully sitting at home and they attack us out of nowhere” ?
A2: if you’re going to conflate this with the attack on Iraq you’ll ha
CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz 3 days ago
Classic whataboutism.
I never said Iran was some kind of angel regime. I never defended any of the illegal shit Iran has done.
I stated, quite clearly, that the US and Isreal have started a war of aggression against Iran, in violation of the UN charter, and tried justifying it as being a “preemptive attack”. The primary point is: That’s a gross violation of international law, and should be condemned.
The initial point I made was regarding the irony in that by attacking Iran “preemptively” at regular intervals, they end up proving to Iran that their sovereignty won’t be respected unless they have a strong deterrent (e.g. nukes).
Iraq, Venezuela, … the point (which stands) is that the US (and Israel) have shown time and again that they will blatantly violate international law and attack others in order to preserve their “national interests”. No one should be surprised when that results in countries like Iran trying to develop strong deterrents like nukes.
Lets put it this way: When was the last time Iran launched a “preemptive” strike on Israel or the US?
Finally, to be completely clear: I’m not condoning any violations of international law. I’m actually sticking to a principle here and saying that one country attacking or coercing another is wrong, no matter who does it. That means russia is the bad guy when they attack Ukraine, the US is the bad guy when they kidnap Maduro, Iran is the bad guy when they organise terror attacks in Israel, Israel is the bad guy when they bulldoze civilian apartments with tanks, etc. etc. etc.