Comment on grrr
maniclucky@lemmy.world 1 week agoSo calling someone a removed is always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
So dropping the n-slur when no black people are around strips it of its history and the connotations used by the speaker? History is part of the context. Tone is part of the context. Both were present.
Furthermore who defines it as as a slur.
Society as a whole generally does that. We collectively decided 20 or so years ago that it was a bad thing to do. And the world was better for it. But that is a bad argument. [arcmonroe.org/…/the-r-word-why-language-matters-a…](Advocacy groups publishing articles reasoning far better than I regarding its status as hate speech is probably the better angle.)
I know someone who is mentally developed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
I’ll assume you meant developmentally delayed. I don’t care for it, but that’s getting into ‘reclaiming the word’ territory, which is not what this conversation is about.
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
The existence of this conversation and my general net upvote (with a nod that lemmy is not a complete demographic, nor do a few comments do an informed study make) rather disproves that. It was out of favor for a long ass time. It was scumbags like Joe Rogan who brought it back. Words evolve past their history. A point I have at no point refuted, merely rejected the argument that this is relevant. One must show that the evolution has changed it sufficiently to no longer be a slur. It still bears its history and current status of being a slur despite falling out of medical favor.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group.
The individual, presumably not disabled, used the intellectually disabled as an insult against others. While perhaps not directly social ridicule it’s not exactly promoting social standing. I’ll grant that they were not attacked directly and thus punching down is not the most appropriate term. What was done was definitely a sibling and still a shitty thing to do.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
You fundamentally misunderstand. I see an offensive thing. I make a single comment that spiraled in a big way. I defend my position and await a compelling argument to convince me otherwise, which has not arisen. I’ve even had some good faith debate and conceded a few things in this mess. Your arguments just aren’t landing for the reason’s I’m spending too much time and effort on.
I’ll admit that my taunts were in poor taste. It doesn’t induce good faith debate to insult.
Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Black people don’t view as a slur, they took it back like the Chicanos did. The major difference is they didn’t fully take it back so it is both a source of unity and disrespect. That is on them for trying to take back a word they don’t want others to use.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
maniclucky@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Black people are not a monolith and I’d be dead in the street if I said that in the wrong neighborhood. This is also irrelevant as that is more about reclamation than the status as a slur (which it is).
So history, the appeals of advocacy groups, the direct rejection of what you say by someone who would have been called such not long enough ago is irrelevant? Context only matters when it helps you I guess?
Linguistic imprecision is hardly the most salient point. My inability to name a better term for the wrong done does not remove the wrong.
I’ve listed off context multiple times. You have failed to refute any of it.
You’re rather arrogant to aspire to objective truth. Even I’m not doing that and I’m having trouble breathing from my high horse. Sociology and linguistics are not the land of objective truth. It speaks ill of your reasoning abilities that you believe that is what you’re doing.
Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 week ago
So you admit that slurs are not always slurs and context matter. This context was missing for you to call it a slur to begin with. There was no mentally delayed person being called a retard. Glad we can agree your original comment was half-baked.
What are you left with again? Oh yes a lie about a slur and a false usage of punching down. Stop bloviating, this is the beginning and end of it.
maniclucky@lemmy.world 1 week ago
That’s quite a few words you shoved in my mouth. I at no point said slurs are not always slurs. I acknowledged context matters as a general statement and then posed the context that I believe matters. I, in fact, positively asserted that history, usage, and present recognition by relevant advocacy groups as being relevant context to define it as a slur. You have yet to acknowledge any of those points. I’ll happily yield if you can name why those three things are irrelevant.
Lie? You’ve lost me on that one. I hold that the usage was offensive even if it does not necessarily meet the definition of ‘punching down’ specifically. The bat is still harmed when it strikes the baseball.
Is it? You have ignored my points multiple times while I have endeavored to engage with yours. I should know better than to engage with bad faith. Alas.