I think one of the mistakes many newb self hosters make is thinking of systems in their entirety rather than as components.
“How to install pihole on a raspberry pi” and “how to setup nextcloud on yunohost” are examples. All using very specific tools and very specific steps.
I’m noticing this more and more with documentation for apps where they tell me to use their specific docker-compose file and have instructions to use let’s encrypt in a specific way rather than referring you to let’s encrypt as an option and pointing you at their docs.
People aren’t learning how to use each of these tools and how to be flexible in their implementation.
Depends highly on the people. I learned that way, to get started with recipes enabled me to get early successes which in turn motivated me.
Down the road I needed different things from my setup, which could not be found in a simple recipe anymore, so I needed to learn the parts of the machine.
Exactly. Both newbies and experienced admins aren’t always looking for a general summary on how to build something. Sometimes we need a direct, easy guide to build the tool we’ve already decided to implement. Let them read the documentation so I don’t have to.
An ad for what, exactly? Yunohost doesn’t have anything to sell you…
People aren’t learning how to use each of these tools and how to be flexible in their implementation.
Who gives a shit? I don’t know how to write apps for my phone either, I just click the install button and away I go. I don’t have time for a new career. If it weren’t for YNH I wouldn’t be hosting at all. And it’s not for lack of trying. Shit is complicated.
Sometimes people are just passionate about things. Like digital sovereignty.
🙄
Who gives a shit? I don’t know how to write apps for my phone either, I just click the install button and away I go. I don’t have time for a new career. If it weren’t for YNH I wouldn’t be hosting at all. And it’s not for lack of trying. Shit is complicated.
I’m always a little surprised when people are passionate about being ignorant.
As someone who has never done any serious coding work or collaboration, hadn’t touched Linux in 18+ years and am really only fluent in windows and Mac, and with limited time to get up to speed, I fucking love opinionated guides.
Tell me exactly what to do to get it up and running.
Let me learn along the way, but don’t expect me to be able to read and understand the pros and cons of lets encrypt vs other solutions.
I simply do not have the requisite base knowledge to make informed decisions on this.
If you wanna leave it up to me how to do a golden gate assembly, quick change reaction, or a gibsok assembly, I can handle that.
Understanding the nuance of docker networking, reverse DNS,maintaining SSL, and just generally how to make it so I can use a hostname and not an IP address to access my services locally is something I want to learn. Eventually.
It’s not that your critiques of guides are invalid, but they may just not be structured for general learning.
I think you could take this arbitrarily far. Why buy a motherboard when building a computer when you should design the PCB yourself? Why go with a pre-existing processor? You should design the architecture from scratch. Why aren’t you mining your own silicon and growing your own ingots? You’re not a real nerd unless you have your own chip fab.
Some people get into self hosting because they want their data to be their data. They don’t care about the particulars, they just want that peace of mind. Others get into it because they’re already in a tech or tech-adjacent field and want to improve their skills. Some, such as myself, fall somewhere in the middle. I work in IT and am sometimes in the mood to tinker, but sometimes I just want it to work without much fuss.
Some people get into self hosting because they want their data to be their data. They don’t care about the particulars, they just want that peace of mind.
These people are the worst. What they want is fine - but the idea that you don’t need to worry about the particulars is ridiculous.
This can be said about literally anything. And it’s a “slippery slope fallacy” to use as an argument.
There are “appropriate levels of understanding” I’m advocating for. I’m not even saying “don’t use yunohost” - just understand what the components you’re using do and how they interoperate.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It still reads like an ad for yunohost…
I think one of the mistakes many newb self hosters make is thinking of systems in their entirety rather than as components.
“How to install pihole on a raspberry pi” and “how to setup nextcloud on yunohost” are examples. All using very specific tools and very specific steps.
I’m noticing this more and more with documentation for apps where they tell me to use their specific docker-compose file and have instructions to use let’s encrypt in a specific way rather than referring you to let’s encrypt as an option and pointing you at their docs.
People aren’t learning how to use each of these tools and how to be flexible in their implementation.
kossa@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Depends highly on the people. I learned that way, to get started with recipes enabled me to get early successes which in turn motivated me.
Down the road I needed different things from my setup, which could not be found in a simple recipe anymore, so I needed to learn the parts of the machine.
tedd_deireadh@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Exactly. Both newbies and experienced admins aren’t always looking for a general summary on how to build something. Sometimes we need a direct, easy guide to build the tool we’ve already decided to implement. Let them read the documentation so I don’t have to.
non_burglar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Exactly why the article promotes stupidity. Why in the world would you put those words down proudly?
ranslite@pie.dasneuland.de 2 weeks ago
How can something be an ad when there is nothing to sell?
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
“Reads like an ad” - see also “simile”.
ranslite@pie.dasneuland.de 2 weeks ago
In germany when we say, sounds like, looks like or reads like, we mean it is. Sorry when i misunderstood.
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
An ad for what, exactly? Yunohost doesn’t have anything to sell you…
Who gives a shit? I don’t know how to write apps for my phone either, I just click the install button and away I go. I don’t have time for a new career. If it weren’t for YNH I wouldn’t be hosting at all. And it’s not for lack of trying. Shit is complicated.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
🙄
I’m always a little surprised when people are passionate about being ignorant.
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I am too, which is why your comments are so surprising.
fafferlicious@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
As someone who has never done any serious coding work or collaboration, hadn’t touched Linux in 18+ years and am really only fluent in windows and Mac, and with limited time to get up to speed, I fucking love opinionated guides.
Tell me exactly what to do to get it up and running. Let me learn along the way, but don’t expect me to be able to read and understand the pros and cons of lets encrypt vs other solutions.
I simply do not have the requisite base knowledge to make informed decisions on this.
If you wanna leave it up to me how to do a golden gate assembly, quick change reaction, or a gibsok assembly, I can handle that.
Understanding the nuance of docker networking, reverse DNS,maintaining SSL, and just generally how to make it so I can use a hostname and not an IP address to access my services locally is something I want to learn. Eventually.
It’s not that your critiques of guides are invalid, but they may just not be structured for general learning.
early_riser@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think you could take this arbitrarily far. Why buy a motherboard when building a computer when you should design the PCB yourself? Why go with a pre-existing processor? You should design the architecture from scratch. Why aren’t you mining your own silicon and growing your own ingots? You’re not a real nerd unless you have your own chip fab.
Some people get into self hosting because they want their data to be their data. They don’t care about the particulars, they just want that peace of mind. Others get into it because they’re already in a tech or tech-adjacent field and want to improve their skills. Some, such as myself, fall somewhere in the middle. I work in IT and am sometimes in the mood to tinker, but sometimes I just want it to work without much fuss.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
These people are the worst. What they want is fine - but the idea that you don’t need to worry about the particulars is ridiculous.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
This can be said about literally anything. And it’s a “slippery slope fallacy” to use as an argument.
There are “appropriate levels of understanding” I’m advocating for. I’m not even saying “don’t use yunohost” - just understand what the components you’re using do and how they interoperate.