Comment on California’s billionaires pour cash into elections as big tech seeks new allies
HetareKing@piefed.social 14 hours agoWe don’t actually know that it doesn’t work, because as I’ve said, all modern democracies have a particular flaw and we don’t know what happens when that flaw is fixed. I would also say that what you’re describing as “anarchism” is just another form of democracy; democracy is a set of principles, not a concrete system. And that anarchism would in practice not be as different from what we have today as you’re imagining. Instead of top-down it would be bottom-up, maybe (which has some problems of its own), but you still end up with elected representatives at higher levels of governance, because even with modern technology it would be impractical to have all the stakeholders of the Rhine, for example, do consensus-building in one big meeting. And those representatives would need to be held to account, just like today.
I think it’s far more fruitful to look at the actual problems we’re having and what structurally is causing them and try to do something about those causes, instead of going on about what systems would or wouldn’t work, because there’s never going to be a perfect system, we’re always going to have to solve problems as they come. Especially when clearly the problem here isn’t the system itself, but the existence of power structures that exist outside of the system and are therefore not constrained by the system, allowing them to undermine the system. If solving that problem results in something that can be described as “socialism” or “anarchism”, so be it, but one thing it absolutely has to be, is a democracy. Because again, anything that is not a democracy is going to be inherently more susceptible to corruption (and therefore be ineffective at solving problems) than even a mediocre implementation of democracy.
Babalugats@feddit.uk 10 hours ago
We do know it doesn’t work.
Look up arrows impossibility theorem.
Anarchism is one of many, and while it is in some ways similar to democracy, it is less open to corruption and it doesn’t have a handful of people deciding everything for us because they got the most votes based on a minority number of issues that they (at the time) claim they will fix.
That you want to stick with democracy and aren’t willing to even be open to the suggestions of anything else, but surely that in itself goes against your beloved democracy, by just assuming that democracy is the best option. Many have thought that their ‘solutions’ were the best option for them in centuries gone by. Feel free to look up quite a few religions for example.
HetareKing@piefed.social 11 minutes ago
Arrow’s impossibility theorem just states that strictly speaking, there is no system within a particular subset of voting systems that is guaranteed to be immune from spoilers affecting the outcome. So not only are you using an overly strict definition of democracy that doesn’t even encompass all democratic systems implemented today, let alone all the ones that could be (which again, includes anarchism), but you’re disqualifying things based on not meeting a level of perfection that is unreasonable to expect of anything. It’s not like anarchism would be free of irrelevant factors affecting decisions; it would be a lot more affected by relationships between people and people’s standing in a community for one thing.
None of the problems you point out are innate to democracy. The reason you associate them with democracy is not because of any inherent quality of democracy, but because of history. To simplify things a lot, the people who championed democracy back in the days of absolute monarchies and nobility also championed a liberal economy. At the time that would have made sense, since it was seen as more fair and meritocratic than an economy managed by the nobility. And compared to that it was, but ultimate it just ended up creating a new nobility in all but name.
But just because they were wrong about one thing doesn’t mean they were wrong about everything. You can pick and choose ideas, and the anarchism you’re promoting is one such attempt.