Comment on The rich oppose clean energy because it is renewable. If clean energy became non renewable, or fossil fuels became renewable, they would no longer oppose a transition to clean energy technology

MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

• ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  If only we could move the production of solar or wind energy closer to where it’s needed. In a different comment you ask how we would ship solar energy from the Americas to Australia. This is a huge problem and may never be solved, if only the sun was shining in Australia maybe we could just harvest the energy there…

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  • MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    Sell a barrel of oil to a man and he will soon buy a another. Sell a solar panel for a man and he wont need another one.

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• this@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Yes you can, using batteries, but in most cases it makes more sense to just run cables between the power grids and transmit power that way, since you expend hardly any energy just transporting it.

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  • MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    How do you propose you make those power cables from lets say USA to Australia? And if suddenly some other country wants to make a better deal for that energy you cant just redirect those cables to lets say Italy.

    Or with batteries. What happens to those expensive batteries containing rare-earthminerals after whom ever has used them? Do you just let them have those or do you buy them back and transport them empty or what?

    Im not advocating for fossil fuels here. Im just stating why its more convinient for big oil to sell easily transportable oil barrels that can be packed in to basically free steel sheets or plastics and are easy to redirect towards whom ever pays the best.

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    • this@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Well yes I agree running power cables between continents is generally unviable(I was thinking more along a neighboring country/state scale). For your example, it would make the most sense to just build seperate infrastructure and have both countries be energy independent imo.

      Allow me to address the battery concerns though. There are batteries that do not require rare earth minerals, and even if you do use ones that require them, once they’ve been used past their lifespan(which is still 1000s of times more uses than gas, which is single use), those rare earth minerals don’t just vaporise and go away(like gas), they can be recycled into newer batteries, and for a fraction of the overall effort of mining new rare earth minerals.

      In any case, my original point is that you can in fact “bottle” and transport renewable energy, even across continents, even if it makes no sense to do so.

      And honestly, If every country had enough oil reserves, it probably wouldn’t make much sense for oil either

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      • MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Well the cant was more in the terms of “you cant have a viable business” than “its physically impossible”. I mean in a theory it would be possible to create moonbase and power it up with AA-batteries, but its just not something that can be done.

        Also with batteries you did not say anything about what would happen to the empty ones. There would be logistical hurdle to overcome with those. Even the cheapest industrial sized battery would still be leagues more expensive than the sheetmetal used to transport oil.

        Again, not talking trying to defend fossilfuels. Just making points why big companies are fighting against the change.

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• gole@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  There are batteries, recent advances have resulted in cheaper batteries that can store more power.

  Alternatively the energy can be used to create hydrogen and that can be transported.

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  • MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    What happens to those expensive batteries containing rare-earthminerals after whom ever has used them? Do you just let them have those or do you buy them back and transport them empty or what?

    Converting energy to create hydrogen is fairly inefficient and transporting it need lot of preparations and the buyer has to have magnitudes more expensive equipment to use it limiting the markets where to sell it.

    Im not advocating for fossil fuels here. Im just stating why its more convinient for big oil to sell easily transportable oil barrels that can be packed in to basically free steel sheets or plastics and are easy to redirect towards whom ever pays the best.

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