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anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

If a hypothetical lemmy-alternative existed, regardless of why, it could still cause disruption in all kinds of ways if there’s a fundamental design contradiction ethos

Which is why it’s important for users to reject attempts at splitting the network into different codebases in the firstplace.

That piefed and many of its users reject working with lemmy devs on principle over political grievance doesn’t change or justify the fact that they are destroying the democratic nature of the federated network they’re taking advantage of.

This doesn’t bother me that much primarily because defederation differences can cause this anyway

Which is why defederation is a last resort and usually requires some democratic discussion as an instance. Same with instance-banning users - that ability is limited to admins, which means users can hold them accountable if there’s abuse. It’s a reason why i consider users who go out of their way to foment division against other instances or users over petty disagreements are caustic and unwelcome, but are at least still working within a decentralized and democratic framework. When any user has the ability to create the same kind of holes in the network, all accountability vanishes and it starts to look like swiss-cheese.

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Skavau@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

Which is why it’s important for users to reject attempts at splitting the network into different codebases in the firstplace.

It is what it is. Mbin also existed before Piefed.

That piefed and many of its users reject working with lemmy devs on principle over political grievance doesn’t change or justify the fact that they are destroying the democratic nature of the federated network they’re taking advantage of.

You’re assuming some hand has been offered that has been slapped away by Rimu. I’m not aware of this. I’m pretty sure they have shared information about things in the past.

Which is why defederation is a last resort and usually requires some democratic discussion as an instance. Same with instance-banning users - that ability is limited to admins, which means users can hold them accountable if there’s abuse. It’s a reason why i consider users who go out of their way to foment division against other instances or users over petty disagreements are caustic and unwelcome, but are at least still working within a decentralized and democratic framework. When any user has the ability to create the same kind of holes in the network, all accountability vanishes and it starts to look like swiss-cheese.

I mean yes, and no (depends on the instance), that’s true but you know as well as I do three instances of note are heavy defederated (hilariouschaos being the third incase you were wondering). Plenty of smaller sloppy attempts also get defederated fast too, usually stuff like maga.place.

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- anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  It is what it is. Mbin also existed before Piefed.
  
  Mbin isn’t nearly as egregious as piefed in the way they introduce breaking changes to the network.
  
  You’re assuming some hand has been offered that has been slapped away by Rimu
  
  I’m not assuming anything, it’s been stated repeatedly. Rimu could implement his preferred features in ways that don’t degrade the health of the network but chooses not to.
  
  you know as well as I do three instances of note are heavy defederated (hilariouschaos being the third incase you were wondering)
  
  I’m not sure what relevance that has, but you can count those instances on a hand missing two fingers (i’d note that dbzer0 does not defederate from 2 of the three that I assume you’re referring to, nor would I advocate for it). It would be interesting for someone to map out just how much of the fediverse is effectively being defederated for piefed servers with large user block lists - i imagine it’s quite a large chunk, especially when the most popular users to block are the ones producing the most activity. The larger those servers grow, the bigger those holes will become.
  
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  - Skavau@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Mbin isn’t nearly as egregious as piefed in the way they introduce breaking changes to the network.
    
    Is Mbin updated much?
    
    I’m not assuming anything, it’s been stated repeatedly. Rimu could implement his preferred features in ways that don’t degrade the health of the network but chooses not to.
    
    Have Lemmy mods approached Rimu at all?
    
    I’m not sure what relevance that has, but you can count those instances on a hand missing two fingers (i’d note that dbzer0 does not defederate from 2 of the three that I assume you’re referring to, nor would I advocate for it). It would be interesting for someone to map out just how much of the fediverse is effectively being defederated for piefed servers with large user block lists - i imagine it’s quite a large chunk, especially when the most popular users to block are the ones producing the most activity. The larger those servers grow, the bigger those holes will become.
    
    Just noting that there are already holes of communication due to defederation (hexbear/lemmygrad are pretty medium sized).
    
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    anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Have Lemmy mods approached Rimu at all?
    
    He chose to fork his own code rather than work with them - I think the better question is why he hasnt vetted his changes with the existing codebase better, or why he cant be bothered.
    
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