Comment on Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Starfleet Academy | 1x04 "Vox in Excelso"
khaosworks@startrek.website 1 day ago
It was okay, and I like that we got some insight into why Jay-Den is the way he is.
But… to be honest, I’m not sure why this debate between Caleb and Jay-Den is even happening. If they’re going to throwing regulations and laws around, doesn’t the actual Prime Directive exist anymore? Because I’ve not heard a single mention of it. If the PD exists, you just don’t mess with the internal workings of a civilisation (TOS: “The Apple” and “The Return of the Archons” notwithstanding). You can offer, you can plead, but whether they accept is their choice and right, even if it means they go extinct because of it. Yes, I know it’s all a metaphor for Jay-Den’s internal struggles, and perhaps given how they’re debating the Prime Directive is now scattered across several statutes and case law instead of one all-encompassing General Order and other sub-orders (VOY: “Infinite Regress”). But when you’re talking about this kind of situation, it’s precisely the Prime Directive you should be using to frame the debate.
Also, I saw the ending coming from very early on in the episode - it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier. Yes, if conquest, not charity, is what Klingons care about, just let them “conquer” Faan Alpha!
If they’re going to throwing regulations and laws around, doesn’t the actual Prime Directive exist anymore?
Caleb explicitly mentions the Prime Directive, stating that it doesn’t apply here, but without explaining why not. I always understood that this directive applies only to pre-warp societies, which the Klingon society is not, but I may be wrong.
The PD applies to everyone the Federation encounters, pre- or post-warp.
The PD prevented the Federation from intervening in Bajoran internal affairs (DS9: “The Circle”). It prevented the Federation from intervening in the Klingon Civil War (TNG: “Redemption”). It prevented Picard from interfering with the Kaelon tradition of elder euthanasia, despite Lwaxana’s entreaties (TNG: “Half a Life”) and with the Ligonian’s racist culture (TNG: “Code of Honor”). Kirk assured the Vians that even though they were more advanced than the Federation, the PD applied to them as well (TOS: “The Empath”).
The PD applies to all civilzations, but is more permissive with those that are already capable of FTL travel. When a species is out travelling the galaxy, you can interact and negotiate with them, but you can’t directly interfere with their business.
Caleb is leaning hard into the “pre-warp” side of it, as many fans tend to do, which is why he said those particular regulations don’t apply. He’s just conveniently ignoring the rest of the PD, assuming it’s still in force in the 32nd century.
I agree that the resolution to the conflict was obvious and it took the episode a bit too long to get there.
Not sure about the PD. I guess it is complicated by the fact that we are talking about the Klingons, a foe and friend for like a millennium. It’s hard to turn away from their struggle. But the federation comes across as if they’re not looking at Klingons on the same level. Like “look at this planet, it has lots of Vulcans, you will love it”, as if Earthlings would be happy if Klingons showed them a planet and are like “this place is 80% water, take it”. I know that’s not even discussed in the episode, but that’s, at least to me, a bigger point than what the Klingons bring up. Home is where the heart is? But then again, Klingons do what Klingons do, so yeah, let’s battle it out
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 day ago
I think the debate club is exactly the place for the conversation - Vance and Starfleet are following the PD. They’ve made the offer, been declined, and are…well, not respecting it, but obeying it. The worst you can say about them is that they’re being persistent, trying to convince someone in the Klingon leadership structure to change their mind. That may be a little obnoxious, but I don’t think it violates any Starfleet principles to give it a shot.
That leaves the cadets to debate whether respecting the Klingons’ wishes is a good thing in this case, and I don’t think there’s any indication that the debate has any weight to it - it’s not going to affect Federation foreign policy.
I liked that “good” debaters tended to fall back on Federation law and Starfleet regulations, whereas the message is to continue to treat people with respect to their culture and identity (even if that identity is sometimes muddled).
I do agree, but (a) Starfleet’s pretty out of practice with this stuff, and we saw in the premiere just how black-and-white they became during the Burn, and (b) if it doesn’t work out…well, you’ve got a botched “Vulcan Hello” on your hands, which isn’t great.
khaosworks@startrek.website 17 hours ago
I don’t profess to be a writer (not anymore), but maybe the structure could have been different. Of course the debate isn’t supposed to affect policy, but the cadets could have debated it differently, and the adults watching to see if they reached the correct solution which was obvious (to them) all along.
I remember when I was in the equivalent of my junior year of high school, and coming up with what I thought was a brilliant insight into Shakespeare’s Henry V, Part 1. All excited, I went to my English teacher and started blabbering about it. He listened patiently and let me finish, then said, “That’s great. You know, it’s been said before, but the important part is that you came up with it on your own.”
A possibility could be centering the core of the cadet debate not so much on whether or not they should force a solution on the Klingons (which as I said is a non-starter because the PD should have settled the question very quickly), but how to get Faan Alpha into the hands of the Klingons without violating their autonomy.
Then you could still get Caleb to take the side of “fuck it, what’s so good about the PD anyway?” and Jay-Den says, “But we have to remain who we are!”
And when Jay-Den has his epiphany, then the adults go, “Excellent. So this is what we’re going to do.” Because the adults have always known what had to be done but wanted the kids come to the conclusion on their own.
Then it doesn’t look like anyone is being an idiot.
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 16 hours ago
No, but I don’t think there’s any era that we’ve seen in which the Federation would stage an act of aggression as a diplomatic overture. Even in this episode, no one seemed sure it was going to work (and it may not have, were it not for Ake’s personal connection to Obel).
I do agree - they probably telegraphed it a little too hard.