Comment on How do I avoid becoming one with the botnet?
ryokimball@infosec.pub 21 hours ago
They don’t have to succeed once.
Use antivirus and other endpoint security measures. Rotate your passwords and keys. Use Everything as Code, and for goodness sake make backups.
If you find yourself compromised, rotate and burn the keys, wipe and redeploy.
bitcrafter@programming.dev 21 hours ago
Everything that you mention is sensible, but it seems like it would take so much time not only to set up but to perform the ongoing maintenance you described that it just is not worth the trouble to self-host, which is a significant factor in why I have not taken a shot at it.
frongt@lemmy.zip 20 hours ago
Self-hosting means taking on those maintenance responsibilities yourself. Same as doing your own plumbing or car maintenance. Either you spend the time and effort yourself, or you pay someone else to do it.
bitcrafter@programming.dev 19 hours ago
Right, but there is an entire spectrum of plumbing maintenance. I am perfectly capable of plunging toilets, but when a drain fails to work after several attack on my part then it is time to call in the plumber.
Wxfisch@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Honestly it’s not a ton of time. A few minutes to run patches every few weeks, and the initial investment to plan, install, and configure your services (but then that’s the fun part no?). Self hosting IMO isn’t a great way to save time and money, or even to get out of the pocket of big tech. If those are your goals you’re better off looking at hosted solutions that are Open, and likely paying for it since running IT stacks isn’t free. Self hosting is a hobby, something you do to learn and because you enjoy it. It is hard sometimes, takes time, and comes with risks, but so do most other hobbies.
bitcrafter@programming.dev 19 hours ago
That does not sound so bad; the parent comment made it sound a lot worse than that.
Wxfisch@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Eh, it can be a lot of work but doesn’t have to be. I’ve automated backups, and if you follow current best practice guidance from industry, you should use long pass phrases and not worry about regularly rotating them. For things like SSH keys, you can rotate them if you think you’ve had a breach but in normal usage there isn’t a huge benefit security-wise since they functionally can’t be guessed and would need to be stolen. If an adversary steals your SSH keys then you’re already pretty hosed as the next step is for them to establish another backdoor to access your server without needing your key.
ryokimball@infosec.pub 20 hours ago
I think most home lab/shelf hosters start off because they want to learn something. I think (generally, philosophically) many people never start something new even if it interests them because they are afraid. To this point, it sounds like you can either let the fear prevent you from doing what you want, or you can use the fear as a learning tool.
Start simple. Build something very easy and isolated, air gap it if you need to. Figure out how logs and monitoring work, maybe even try attacking it yourself, so you have confidence that even if it’s compromised you will see how and why. Then you can connect it to the internet, isolated from the rest of your network, and then you will learn how well- or un-founded those fears are. Learn even more about monitoring and defending, then start looking for a job as a cybersecurity professional because you are already well underway.
bitcrafter@programming.dev 19 hours ago
I mostly just like building and tinkering with things, and I really like the idea of setting up services that I control that host my own data that I can access from anywhere. I have no real interest in learning about more than the minimum amount needed to do that simply because that is not how I would like to spend my time.
(Lest you continue to have the wrong impression that I am afraid of learning new things: There was a period in my life where I was constantly learning new technologies, programming languages, etc. Eventually I realized that I had demonstrated that I was capable of learning anything that I wanted, and there were so many things out there to learn that I needed to start becoming more selective. At the moment my learning goals tend to be more math focused; currently I am trying to learn graduate-level category theory and measure theory.)
If I really need to master all of the steps that you’ve described before deploying my host on the Internet, then my conclusion is that it is more trouble than it is worth, because my concern is that if I screw up then I will make the Internet a worse place by contributing to botnets.
irmadlad@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Nah dude. You’re not going to make the internet worse because a bot opened a door you thought was locked and let himself in. That’s rubbish. Do some reading, study up, deploy the server. Monitor before you start putting any PII on the server. Deploy a couple fun Docker containers. Monitor. Build your confidence.
Don’t let fear get the best of you. I have a load of fun with my set up as, like you, I love to tinker. Nothing I have done can’t be replicated through studying, asking questions, deploying in gradual steps. I have no certifications or any of that pro stuff some of these guys. Just a regular schmoe. It really isn’t that much hassle once you get everything set up and you have confidence in your server’s defenses.
DO IT!!!