Comment on Europe wants easy default browser selection screens. Mozilla is already sounding the alarm on dirty tricks

mojo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• lud@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Why? In windows you already have a dozen selection screens during installation, just adding one for the browser would be a huge deal.

  OEMs could just install every popular browser.

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  • mojo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What determines a popular browser?

    Which order are they shown in?

    Do they have descriptions, and how do you accurately describe the difference in web browsers in a short description?

    Should Firefox mention they’re the only non-Chromium browser engine, and should it be grouped by browser engines instead?

    Is it really diverse if they’re all just Chromium skins?

    If Firefox is going to be buried at the bottom of the list, is that really as fair as the first one in the list?

    What about if they unfairly resize their Edge browser as half the screen and preselect it as a default, while making the alternatives smaller and harder to see at a glance for people that just want to go quickly through the options.

    This is why it’s more complicated then just “show every popular browser”.

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    • SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      There’s not really much here that isn’t pretty easily solved. Alphabetical order, descriptions yes, written by each vendor. Yes Firefox would be required to be listed since it’s one of the handful not based on chromium. Design literally is just solving these exact kinds of problems and it happens every day, no need to make it a harder problem than it is.

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      • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I can’t wait to start using Aardvark browser.

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      • theterrasque@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Alphabetical order

        A problem since a lot just choose the first or last.

        sitepoint.com/microsoft-fix-their-non-random-brow…

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      • mojo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It is a hard problem, for all the reasons I listed lol. Alphabetical order would be a terrible idea, browsers would be punished because of their name. Randomized order would be better. Obviously Firefox would be there, that doesn’t even need to be stated. This isn’t easily solved, and we do not have browser neutrality or anything close to it in any form or platform.

        These are things you need to figure out, there’s no “no need to make it harder problem than it is” when it comes to designing these very important things. That’s just how you have straight up bad design that isn’t thought out.

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      • And009@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        If they really wanna provide options they can.

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    • Ravi@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      All of that points are valid questions to be solved for an implementation. I want to add another one: Which part of the users profit from this?

      Most users don’t give a fuck which browser they use as long as it’s working. They cannot comprehend most information you described in your questions and want a simple solution. The other part of users usually knows how to install and select a browser of their choice on a PC. After all it’s not that hard with the current OS choices available anyway.

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      • nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I agree, mostly. let OS have a default choice; sure, even make it not uninstallable (as a failsafe so that noone accidentally ends up with no browser whatsoever). but also FORBID them from ever automatically switching back after user makes their choice and FORBID them from prompting the switch in any place in the OS. opt-out is opt-out, not opt-out-but-maybe-will-change-my-mind-at-some-point-or-just-misclick. and this doesn’t only go for browser. any “microsoft recommended settings” should be fucking banned. if I want to open my PDFs in sumatra, I want it to stay that way and not be prompted to use fucking edge for that. sure, ask my once whether I’m sure about it. but that’s it

        I remember there was a debate over iOS sideloading and someone made a very good point. Apple can lock me out of their eco-system, stop updates, void warranty. but let users use their fucking devices as they wish.

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  • GigglyBobble@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So, Chrome and Edge? No thank you.

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    • lud@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Firefox would obviously also be included.

      Maybe even brave and opera too.

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      • lemann@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It’s a shame Opera dumped their in house rendering engine, but it’s understandable when the market leader monopoly keeps making changes that are hard to keep up with… not to mention the “Not compatible with your browser” stuff

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      • GigglyBobble@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        That's not so obvious to me. Companies might refer to usage statistics to exclude the ones you mentioned.

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• lloram239@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Not really. We already did it with BrowserChoice.eu, just do it again. Just this time don’t cancel. It doesn’t need to be perfect, as anything is better than what we have today.

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  • optissima@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    One issue I can think of is that, if you list “all browsers,” most are still chrome under the hood, thus stacking the seemingly “equal” choice.

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    • golli@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They could make groups based on enginey and then randomly shuffle those. And within those either list browsers by popularity or again shuffle.

      Would also help to educate people how little actual choice there is

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