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Appreciate the feedback, perhaps I make that jump with too much assumption. The logic behind it is as follows: if the laws of our reality as we perceive it are telling us that the odds are nearly infinite to one that our consciousness should be in a state of non-existence, why do we believe that to be true? Especially when we consider that it is certainly logically possible for reality to be an illusion, and that there’s considerable evidence that is such (the probability argument of Bostrom’s Simulation Hypothesis, Dr S James Gates discovery of computer code with the equations of supersymmetry physics, and the double slit experiment, etc). We need to make the distinction between the logic of the notion “I think therefore I am” and the empirical observations of the reality around us. That’s why I use the example of loading sentient artificial intelligence into a video game world. They can create a science to explain the logic of that, but none of that logic applies to the truth of their existence.

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MrSmiley@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Argument from Incredulity

“If the laws of our reality as we perceive it are telling us that the odds are nearly infinite to one that our consciousness should be in a state of non-existence, why do we believe that to be true?”

False Dilemma

“We need to make the distinction between the logic of the notion ‘I think therefore I am’ and the empirical observations of the reality around us.”

Appeal to Possibility

“Especially when we consider that it is certainly logically possible for reality to be an illusion…”

Cherry-Picking

“…considerable evidence that is such (the probability argument of Bostrom’s Simulation Hypothesis, Dr. S. James Gates’ discovery of computer code in the equations of supersymmetry physics, and the double slit experiment, etc).”

Bostram’s Simulation Hypothesis is a philosophical thought experiment, not empirical evidence, Dr. Gates’ work involves mathematical structures in physics, not literal “computer code” proving a simulation and the double slit experiment demonstrates quantum behavior, not that reality is an illusion.

False Analogy

“That’s why I use the example of loading sentient artificial intelligence into a video game world. They can create a science to explain the logic of that, but none of that logic applies to the truth of their existence.”

Conflating Epistemology and Ontology

“The logic behind it is as follows: if the laws of our reality as we perceive it are telling us that the odds are nearly infinite to one that our consciousness should be in a state of non-existence…”

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- Mander@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Countering an argument by labelling and linking it’s statements seems a very disjointed way to try to enforce your logic. For example you labelled my core argument as a False Dilemma, implying that it creates an oversimplified choice by eliminating alternatives. Care to elaborate exactly how it is doing that, and which alternatives it is excluding?
  
  It would seem to me that you’re someone who takes your reality at the highest value, as in that you not only believe that nothing can supersede the laws defined by this reality, but you also take concepts that have enough social or scientific validation to be true despite not fully comprehending the concepts yourself. I do not mean that as an attack on your intelligence by any means btw, not a single soul possesses the ability to fully comprehend everything humans have scientifically discovered, so at some point we are all relying on the word of someone else.
  
  The fallacy in this is that you are rejecting the notion this could be a simulation before you ever step foot into exploring the logic I presented. Because if this were a simulation, you could acknowledge that everything could be an illusion, the past could be generated, other people could be NPCs, etc, and this is all designed as an experience. At that point you might consider then that an article which states this cannot be a simulation might have been created for the purpose of keeping you immersed, not unlike the Truman Show. That if this were a simulation then it is likely a designed experience, and in the designing of that experience it would likely be known where the limits of your comprehension, and which knowledge you would seek for yourself would be. So then, for example, the experience could serve you an article which states that scientists have discovered that algorithmically this cannot be a simulation, and rather than explore and fully comprehend that notion for yourself, you would instead take it at face value.
  
  This is why it’s so important to not only make distinctions in the levels of logic, with the base being the irrefutable “I think therefore I am”, as well as the presented logic not being so advanced that you’d need to read a textbook to understand it. Because reading a textbook is again taking things at face value. And if you read textbooks that explained the sci-fi world of a video game, as interesting as they may be, they offer nothing but further immersion.
  
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  - MrSmiley@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Reality is a simulation is an unfalsifiable claim, it can only be taken on faith, belief. Bootstrapping scientific theories to « prove » that claim is demonstrably pseudoscience. I’ve put too much time and energy engaging with this already.
    
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    QuarterSwede@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    This right here.
    
    It’s the same reason religions call it faith. Not being able to prove it, is kind of the point.
    
    And no, I have no desire to start a conversation with OP. No offense, I’m just, personally, way beyond this type of philosophy.
    
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    Mander@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    At no point do I state that reality is a simulation. What I am stating is that there is more sound logic to support that it is than there is to support the eternal death that we perceive. Then I provide clear examples of this logic (the improbable anomaly of existence coinciding with the present moment, Bostrom’s probability argument of a simulation, the double slit experiment which has provided a foundation for quantum physics, Dr S James Gates discovery, and Jacobo Grinberg’s Syntergic Theory)
    
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brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

our consciousness should be in a state of non-existence

Sounds like you’re speaking of the Fermi Paradox, and some related things.

But just because the existence of our consciousness is improbable doesn’t mean you can conclude that it’s literally impossible.

You also seem to be connecting a lot of ideas under the assumption that a human ‘point of view’ is necessarily unique… I think this article touches on a lot of your ideas: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

And, indeed, the bias of a human-centric viewpoint is a huge issue in science and an ongoing point of debate, as seen above.

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- Mander@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I’m not saying it is literally impossible, but we can’t ignore just how improbable reality tells us it is. Those odds pretty much indicate a certainty, but even if they didn’t my point still stands. That point being that there’s already a very compelling case for the simulation theory which does not involve my hypothesis. So now when you bring that hypothesis to the table, it significantly bolsters it, like an experiment that supports the thesis with a failure rate so low it’s not observable. So the real question is, do you think a simulation is more unlikely than the odds of your consciousness existing in the present moment?
  
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