Comment on Linux gamers on Steam finally cross over the 3% mark
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 day agoI don’t recommend Arch forks as a rule, unless it has fantastic support from the maintainers (e.g. SteamOS curates updates). It’s going to by break eventually, and it’s going to require manual intervention (probably minimal), and users will get mad. Maybe it’ll be fine for 6 months or a year, but it will break eventually.
That’s much less likely with something built on Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, or OpenSUSE. Those all have solid testing and upgrade rules, unlike Arch, which is basically “works on my machine.” I used Arch for years until I got tired of the random breakage, and now I’m on Tumbleweed which has far less breakage and stays reasonably close to Arch package versions.
My first recommendation is either Linux Mint (I prefer Debian edition) or Fedora, because those have good new user experiences and aren’t super opinionated like Ubuntu.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
At least some of the problems I reported about Bazzite are inherited from Fedora. Bazzite didn’t create Anaconda.
Fedora has the problem of being generally fine, but most of the world for the last decade has been targeting Ubuntu as THE Linux distro, so there’s a lot if Git repos out there that don’t include instructions for Fedora. Way fewer things are packaged in rpm rather than deb. I’ve never seen Linux Mint kernel panic unless I was fucking around with the video drivers, I’ve seen Fedora kernel panic.
The main reason I’m using Fedora right now rather than Mint is Mint tends to have an older codebase, and we’re at a point in PC technology where things like wayland offer support for video and graphics stuff that don’t work well under X11. like my 1440p ultrawide 144Hz monitor sitting next to a 1080p 60hz side monitor. Fedora KDE has it ready to go, Mint Cinnamon does not.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 20 hours ago
For new users, if it doesn’t exist in the repos, you’ve gone too far. Don’t look for RPMs or debs, look for your distros package, and failing that, look to add a repo tons of people online recommend for whatever you’re using (e.g. RPMFusion IIRC). The vast majority of what you want will be there.
If it’s something you really can’t live without, ask on the forums for your distro, and wait until you get multiple answers from different people saying the same thing. Give it a few days too.
Installing from source isn’t a bad thing, I do it all the time. But a lot of people will trust some random post on SM and then complain that it doesn’t work or broke their system or something (see LTT’s video where he uninstalled his DE by trying to install Steam). Don’t install from source or random RPMs/debs until you’re comfortable tracking down what dependencies you need and are able to read scripts to make sure nothing funky is going on. Many posts online will be outdated, and with Linux getting more attention, malware is a growing concern.
Does Mint still not use Wayland?
Having an older codebase is generally good for new users, since the software tends to be more tested and more people will know the workarounds. Newer software will have different issues, so be careful chasing the latest and greatest if you’re not comfortable sifting through logs to figure out what happened.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 19 hours ago
I don’t think this holds up under scrutiny. Theoretically sure, installing using your distro’s package manager is the beginner skill, compiling from source is the advanced skill.
The reality is, people transplanting from Windows often own hardware they want to continue to use, that require software that isn’t in a distro’s package manager. For me, this included a DisplayLink docking station, an Epson printer and a SpaceMouse. For some, it will include gaming keyboards or mice, stream decks, who knows what else. A lot of times, there are folks making open source software for these things, but they don’t package them. So you end up on Github as a beginner looking for the thing to make your thing work.
As you migrate into the ecosystem, you start buying hardware that is well supported by the Linux ecosystem, that problem starts to fade away.
by rpm vs deb, I wasn’t meaning downloading individual files…though I’ve done that. DisplayLink offered their driver as a .deb. At first, that Epson printer only issued a .rpm, and I had to use Alien to install a .rpm on a Linux Mint computer. With time, they offered a .deb, and eventually the printer was just natively supported by CUPS. I meant, I find that the Debian/Ubuntu repos (the dpkg/APT system that uses .deb files) have more stuff in them than Fedora’s repos (the DNF package manager that uses .rpm files) do.
When I built my current PC, Wayland support in Mint Cinnamon was “We’ve just now added it, it doesn’t work worth a damn but you can try it.” They’re coming along, but they’re behind.
Is an older codebase generally good for new users? The first distro I installed on an x86 PC was Mint Cinnamon 17. Quiana. On a then brand new Dell Inspiron laptop. For about 6 months, the kernel that shipped with the OS didn’t support the laptop’s built-in trackpad. I had to manually update the kernel through Mint Update for the trackpad to work. There’s problems at the bleeding edge, but there’s problems at the trailing edge as well.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 hours ago
Ah, makes sense. That’s probably because Fedora doesn’t package non-FOSS packages, so you need to use something separate like RPMFusion, and that doesn’t contain everything. There’s usually a repo for what you want, but for something really niche, yeah, Ubuntu will probably have a better chance of having it, followed by Debian.
That said, I really like the way openSUSE does it. Basically, they have OBS, which is kind of like the AUR, but it actually builds packages for you. I think that’s a much better way to handle it than building stuff from source on your local machine, since it allows you to share that package (i.e. dev machine vs other machines you have) and at least track down the dependencies needed since it starts w/ a blank slate. I don’t know if Fedora has something similar, and it’s certainly not a beginner-friendly option (if you’re pulling packages from OBS, you’re probably doing it wrong and will likely run into issues). However, that is the first step to getting something included in the official repos.
But if it’s not in the default repositories, you should definitely talk to someone more familiar w/ the distro to figure out the “right way” to do it. I’ve built .debs and AUR PKGBUILDs, but only after learning from the community the right way to do it to make sure it doesn’t break on an update. New users are unlikely to put in that legwork, hence the recommendation to never use anything outside the default repos w/o asking for help.
I agree. I guess my point is that if things work w/ an older set of packages, the chance that things will break is incredibly low. Whereas if things work on a bleeding edge distro, there’s a good chance you’ll see some breakage.
For example, openSUSE Tumbleweed is generally a good distro, but there was a week or so where my HDMI port didn’t work, my default sound device changed suddenly and was no longer consistent (sometimes would pick one monitor’s speakers instead of the other, depending on which came online first), and I was stuck on an older kernel for a couple weeks due to some kind of intermittent crashing. This experience was way better than what I had on Arch, and fortunately TW has been uneventful for 2-3 years now (probably because my hardware hasn’t changed).
So for a new user, I recommend finding the oldest distro that supports all the hardware you need. For experienced users, I recommend using a rolling, bleeding-edge distro and reporting bugs upstream as they happen, because the frustration of something breaking randomly is much less than the frustration of multilple things breaking on a release upgrade, and it’s nice to have the latest improvements to performance and whatnot (i.e. I used Wayland on TW way before it landed on any release-based distro, which was awesome since it allowed me to use different refresh rates on each monitor).
For your example, I’d recommend users hop distros until they find one where everything works. If Mint is too old, try Fedora. There’s usually a sweet spot where everything works and you have a reasonably stable experience overall. Even Debian Testing (pinned to the release name, not “testing”) is probably a better fit than Arch or openSUSE Tumbleweed.