Comment on Hydrogen locomotive

roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• pfizz99@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Big oil and gas fund it. Main source of hydrogen right now is from oil drilling.

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• bioemerl@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Why not?

  Batteries can't keep nearly as much power in a space as burnable fuel can, it's just physically impossible because the oxygen you add to fuel gives it a far higher energy density where batteries need the oxygen built in.

  Something like a locomotive also needs an absolute shit ton of power to pull the trains they pull, so you're going to have a lot of difficulty and it's going to be pretty expensive running high voltage lines across these railroads.

  Hydrogen, because of railroad can easily control the infrastructure and fill up a train, run it right away, and refill it at its destination, could actually be a pretty viable option

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  • roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    There are zero sources of green hydrogen in the foreseeable future and railways can be electrified. Small runs that aren't electrified can use batteries. There is a zero use case for a leaky fuel that we source from creating CO2 like hydrogen.

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    • bioemerl@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      As we move into green energy we're going to have an excess of power at times that we don't need it, and there's going to be many use cases where stuff like electrolysis, even though it's wasteful, is ultimately well worth it because power will be cheap to free during those times of day.

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      • roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Not in my lifetime, that's for sure. We currently supply nearly all agricultural hydrogen from oil cracking, for example. There may be a future where wastefully using hydrogen makes sense, but it's not anytime soon.

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    • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If hydrogen ever becomes a real thing, maybe for using green energy in remote areas where electric isn’t feasible or economical, maybe the cost to waste some peak solar/wind to generate hydrogen via electrolysis will somehow make sense cost-wise.

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    • zout@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Electrolysis is wastefull, but so are internal combustion engines.

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      • roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        That's not what folks should seriously be comparing this to. You can run electric wires directly over the damn rail and feed a train off the grid. That's where money should be going everywhere 20 years ago.

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  • LaggyKar@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    you’re going to have a lot of difficulty and it’s going to be pretty expensive running high voltage lines across these railroads.

    It’s worked just fine for the past century

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    • bioemerl@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      For what? Trolleys?

      Go look at the weight of an average coal train and remember that most of these railways go through some of the most criminal regions of the country with lots of burnable forest land running around the tracks

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      • roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Just because the US never electrified it's train infrastructure after the obsoletion of the steam engine doesn't mean other folks didn't. Many trains straight up use their diesel engines as electric generators for electric motors.

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      • LaggyKar@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        For what? Trolleys?

        For most trains in Europe. For example I can mention the Iron Ore Line in north Sweden which has 8600 trains. Which isn’t as heavy as some of the coal or ore trains around the world, but it’s at up to a 1% incline.

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  • GenEcon@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You got any idea of the energy density of Hydrogen? On a per m3 basis, batteries hold a lot more energy.

    BTW, hydrogen doesn’t get burned.

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• lemann@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Fills up in a comparable time span as diesel locos, and the hydrogen storage would be much lighter compared to equivalent battery storage. No need for an onboard AC/DC generator for the traction motors too, as would be the case if it was diesel powered.

  To me it seems like an ideal diesel loco replacement

  I assume it will be hauling cargo, not passengers…

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  • roguetrick@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It's a very dumb solution to things that run on tracks and can be directly electrified. It's mind boggling silly frankly.

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  • HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Weight is usually a feature for locomotives, which are sometimes ballasted for extra traction.

    Occasionally you see extra-lightweight engines designed for light infrastructure-- often putting the same guts on more axles to lower the load, but it’s rare.

    Modern locomotives also use AC traction motors, with sophisticated computer controls to generate an AC product suitable for the desired speed and torque. Even modern diesel-electric designs have alternators and AC internals. Yes, some old electric engines were huge rectifiers on wheels, but that’s no longer necessary.

    Electrification is a very “capitalism won’t let us have nice things” problem; it’s a 25 year commitment to infrastructure and new engines before it pays full benefits (higher reliability, simpler equipment, higher horsepower per unit, using dynamic braking to return power to the grid)

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