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Comment on Muslim states join European powers in backing Trump Gaza plan

Multiple muslim majority countries have agreed to send troops for a peace force.

Which ones are these? Why do you describe them as ‘muslim majority’, are you implying this a holy war? Or are muslims uniquely opposed to genocide? Because then it’s prudent to remember that Jordan and Egypt are muslim majority countries but among the top enablers and participants in the genocide.

Ownership of ´the ground´ is not an issue at first

The conflict is over ownership of Palestine. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine. It is an issue.

Trump and his buds will be making their money will be through leeching the money donated for rebuilding

They will make money through hotels and selling land to settlers, same as he previously said he would. reuters.com/…/trumps-gaza-riviera-echoes-kushner-…

Pretty wrong on most points here

Let’s go through the plan without the weasel wording.

All Gaza inhabitants must leave.
Gaza will be turned into a resort.
Israel will stop bombing. Hamas will release prisoners.
Hamas has a 72 hour time limit.
Israel will release 1950 hostages. Israel will release 15 corpses per corpse Hamas releases.
Hamas will not be persecuted but must leave.
The UN will sustain life in Gaza for the duration of the ethnic cleansing.
Israel won’t commit terrorist attacks against aid distribution sites.
Donald J. Trump will be the new governor of Gaza. He is required to employ one Palestinian in his government. Tony Blair will be in the government. The government will eventually be renamed Palestinian Authority. It will follow a neo-liberal model.
Trump will create a company to manage building projects in Gaza.
Trump’s Gaza won’t have tariffs placed on it by the USA.
There will be a legal framework for ethnically cleansed Palestinians to return to Gaza.
All resistance groups must leave. All Palestinians must permanently disarm.
Hamas must consent to monitoring (and likely assassination) in their new host countries.
Trump will deploy a private military force to Gaza. Israel, Egypt and Jordan will be consulted.
New borders will be agreed on for Gaza between Trump and Israel. Israel will not occupy or annex Trump’s Gaza. Part of the current Gaza territory will be annexed by Israel.
The plan will be forced on Palestine and Gaza by the IDF with or without their consent.
The messaging and propaganda surrounding this annexation is difficult and should be carefully considered.
If Gaza is surrendered peacefully, the USA will entertain Palestinian statehood.
The USA will establish some form of diplomatic channel with the West Bank.

You accused me of being wrong on the majority of my points, except for one of my two points. The remaining point being that Gaza must be surrendered to Trump and Israel. If we look through the proposal, articles 1, 2, 6, 9, 11, 13, 15, 16, 19 support my claim.

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couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It’s funny that you complain about weasel wording but can’t see it in yourself or, more likely, allow it for yourself. Your claims that the Palestinians have to kill themselves or leave under this ‘plan’ doesn’t jive with reality.

Donnie knows that staying friends with the sunni states makes him a lot of money. A lot more money than he can ever make from the people that would give that up to add a small strip of land to Israel. Making the supposedly “fully behind Palestine” leaders of these countries lose face completely by having them backing this plan publicly and then shredding it will lose him a lot of money.

It’s much more profitable to continue their alliance. Removing the threat of Hamas in the same way as was done with Hezbollah makes everyone* happy and opens the opportunity to make money from it either way. They can say they saved the Gazans while Israel gets a security upgrade and hostages.

(* except the ultrazionists, which may have swing because they can drop the Israeli government but are still a rather small faction despite what people try to make you believe. If Hamas agree publicly, Bibi will go for elections before he’ll slap Trump with a 180 to please these bozo’s.)

.

Why do you describe them as ‘muslim majority’, are you implying this a holy war?

Ah yes, the good ol’ “Sir, how dare you imply a religious conflict?!” smh

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- Aria@lemmygrad.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I’m sorry do you not think this is weasely?
  
  A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energise Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East. Many thoughtful investment proposals and exciting development ideas have been crafted by well-meaning international groups, and will be considered to synthesize the security and governance frameworks to attract and facilitate these investments that will create jobs, opportunity, and hope for future Gaza.
  
  This is article 10. Please explain to me how my abbreviation does anything else than remove positive loading and noise.
  
  sunni states They are not Sunni states. They are states. And both are client states of the USA.
  
  Making the supposedly “fully behind Palestine” leaders of these countries lose face completely by having them backing this plan publicly and then shredding it will lose him a lot of money.
  
  21 days ago, the USA invited Palestine to Doha to negotiate. Then they bombed the Palestinian delegation with fighter jets. The Qatari prime minister said “The Qatar-US security and defence partnership is stronger than ever and continues to grow” the following day.
  
  Your claims that the Palestinians have to kill themselves or leave under this ‘plan’ doesn’t jive with reality.
  
  Article 13 enables the death of all Palestinians at the moment of Israel’s choosing. Israel has shown that their goal is the eradication of Palestinians.
  
  Sir, how dare you imply a religious conflict?!
  
  This is not a religious conflict. You’re being orientalist. The Israeli’s are not religious, they are just racist. When western nations want emaciation, you don’t ascribe illogical motivations to them, you take it for granted that emancipation is worthwhile.
  
  If you think this proposal has any balance, then go through it again but replace Gaza with Ukraine and Trump with Putin and see if you would consider it viable for Ukraine.
  
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  - couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Please explain to me how my abbreviation does anything else than
    
    Feel free to let me know where you’re reading that Palestinians should kill themselves. Trumps weaseling is not an excuse to follow his example.
    
    They are not Sunni states. They are states. And both are client states of the USA.
    
    There are eight sunni states that put themselves behind Donnie, including the most important ones. You can try to brush this off because they were already very friendly to him, but yeah, that’s the point.
    
    The Qatari prime minister said
    
    Sure, and making Bibi publicly apologize to him and Donnie assure they would not allow it to happen again was offered to allow him to save face. Why else do you think they did that?
    
    Article 13 enables the death of all Palestinians at the moment of Israel’s choosing
    
    I don’t know which list they’ve sent you but in mine article 13 is about the disarmament of Hamas
    
    This is not a religious conflict. You’re being orientalist.
    
    Yeah, thanks for opening my eyes! I’ve just reread the history of the region and indeed, religious differences were never an issue there
    
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    Aria@lemmygrad.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Feel free to let me know where you’re reading that Palestinians should kill themselves.
    
    I did. Article 13.
    
    I don’t know which list they’ve sent you but in mine article 13 is about the disarmament of Hamas
    
    Trump’s exact phrasing:
    
    Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt.
    
    “And other factions” means everyone. It means PFLP, it means everyone in PLO and everyone who is part of some political entity (e.g. a labour union) is directly called out and barred from public life, and then in the same breath all military infrastructure has to be surrendered. It doesn’t say “Hamas’ weapons”, it says all weapons.
    
    If you live next to someone actively trying to kill you and you do not have any means to protect yourself, you will be killed. There are zero steps of assumption or inference required here. It is obviously immediately equivalent to death. You pretending like there’s a semantic difference is dishonesty.
    
    that’s the point
    
    What point were you trying to make that I missed? Is part of the Sunni religion that you must support Donald Trump? Is Donald Trump a Sunni prophet? If that is the point you’re making, then at some point you accepted and internalised some misinformation.
    
    making Bibi publicly apologize
    
    Do you have a recording of this apology? Since it was public, there must be a recording.
    
    Why else do you think they did that?
    
    I’m not arguing the Qatari administration doesn’t care about saving face. I’m saying the administration isn’t deterred by having to participate in war crimes. Yes, obviously the optics of promising amnesty and initiating a dialogue in the guise of negotiation when your goal is assassination is very bad, and improving optics is worthwhile to the USA, Israel, and Qatar. But the tactic is demonstrably not beyond their evil. Genocide was already their baseline, so any optics management is an uphill battle, and they aren’t going to prioritise it too much.
    
    Yeah, thanks for opening my eyes! I’ve just reread the history of the region and indeed, religious differences were never an issue there
    
    You’re still being orientalist. It’s very off-putting. Would you accept a fraction of this attitude towards your own home?
    
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