Comment on Muslim states join European powers in backing Trump Gaza plan
Aria@lemmygrad.ml 3 weeks agoFeel free to let me know where you’re reading that Palestinians should kill themselves.
I did. Article 13.
I don’t know which list they’ve sent you but in mine article 13 is about the disarmament of Hamas
Trump’s exact phrasing:
Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt.
“And other factions” means everyone. It means PFLP, it means everyone in PLO and everyone who is part of some political entity (e.g. a labour union) is directly called out and barred from public life, and then in the same breath all military infrastructure has to be surrendered. It doesn’t say “Hamas’ weapons”, it says all weapons.
If you live next to someone actively trying to kill you and you do not have any means to protect yourself, you will be killed. There are zero steps of assumption or inference required here. It is obviously immediately equivalent to death. You pretending like there’s a semantic difference is dishonesty.
that’s the point
What point were you trying to make that I missed? Is part of the Sunni religion that you must support Donald Trump? Is Donald Trump a Sunni prophet? If that is the point you’re making, then at some point you accepted and internalised some misinformation.
making Bibi publicly apologize
Do you have a recording of this apology? Since it was public, there must be a recording.
Why else do you think they did that?
I’m not arguing the Qatari administration doesn’t care about saving face. I’m saying the administration isn’t deterred by having to participate in war crimes. Yes, obviously the optics of promising amnesty and initiating a dialogue in the guise of negotiation when your goal is assassination is very bad, and improving optics is worthwhile to the USA, Israel, and Qatar. But the tactic is demonstrably not beyond their evil. Genocide was already their baseline, so any optics management is an uphill battle, and they aren’t going to prioritise it too much.
Yeah, thanks for opening my eyes! I’ve just reread the history of the region and indeed, religious differences were never an issue there
You’re still being orientalist. It’s very off-putting. Would you accept a fraction of this attitude towards your own home?
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
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You seem to want to derail the converstation to make it appear like I argue that it has something to do with the nature of their religion, but they could be worshipping the Holy Teapot as far as I’m concerned. If you want to go into why I think it’s mentionable that basically all of the important sunni states are on board I suggest you start by reading about the Abraham Accords and how that history ties in with what happened with Gaza.
His apology is public in the sense that they proudly and loudly proclaimed he did so before praising Qatar for supporting their plan. Whether he called him buddy or Susan isn’t really the relevant part here
I think it’s interesting that you’re turning from “religion has nothing to do with this” to something like this.
If someone were to say that ‘my home’ (as in the building I live in?) has a history of religious conflict I’d honestly just be stunned and ask them to give me some examples, because I don’t think there are.
If you mean ‘my home region’ then I’d say they’re entirely right: religious conflicts made people do horrible, horrible things to eachother around here, and it’s important to remember that.
But the words you’re using makes it sound more like you don’t honestly believe that there isn’t a religious angle to the conflict with Israel but instead that you think there should be some kind of taboo on it? Because any mention of it would hurt the feelings of those who live in the region?
Aria@lemmygrad.ml 3 weeks ago
A word used with its dictionary definition is precise. The fault here is entirely with you for not knowing its dictionary definition. Those aren’t consecutive steps of reason, I repeated the same information multiple times.
If someone threatens you like that, and they say “I will wrong all persons sharing your name”, do you simply assume you aren’t included in the threat? In talking to you, it seems like your only motivation is wasting time and playing devil’s advocate for impossible to defend positions, in hopes of catching an amphibolic technicality.
If that isn’t your position, then clarify your position. Stop with your vague allusions. What point where you trying to make? Why did you previously describe countries as “muslim majority” and “Sunni”? Speaking in dog-whistles only invites assumptions. Clarify your position.
Ah well you see, that’s actually refuted by if you read the history of the Tulkarem electrical safety building codes. Or perhaps it would be better if you actually explained your own position.
Strange that I couldn’t hear it.
I have discovered it is possible to have empathy without religion. It’s even possible to not do tribalism.
It isn’t taboo, it’s wrong. By pretending like the actors are religiously motivated, you’re pretending the Palestinians, driven by the most universal motivation there is, are in actuality esoteric and unrelatable, irrational.
I encouraged you to relate the situation to human beings twice and both times you dodged sharing your reflection. There are human beings in Ukraine, therefore it’s appropriate to ask if they would deserve better than these terms of surrender. The dominant religion doesn’t change that. There are human beings where you live, therefore it’s appropriate to ask if they deserve better than to be misrepresented like you are misrepresenting the Palestinians. There are seven hundred zero-year-olds among those culled by Israel in 2024. Did they choose to die in service of their religion?
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
If you really want to pretend that religion doesn’t play a part in this conflict, I don’t really see how that would help anyone… It just makes certain behaviour unexplainable for you and, hence, as long as you are in denial of this you won’t be in a position to think of a realistic path forward. Why would Trump have to buy off Malaysia to support his ultimatum and not, say, Brazil?
Regarding Ukraine, I don’t think that religion is a(n important) driver there. But I suggest you look up what happened within the orthodox christian church in parallel. Or how the church played a role in the recent elections in Moldova and the conflict over Transnistria.
And in the transition of finding your last sentences the most revealing: what religion do you believe those zero-year-olds were following?