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Comment on Is Star Trek Discovery that bad?

Akuchimoya@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

I watched all of Discovery. It is, by far, the worst of all Star Treks. (Disclosure: I have not seen TAS.)

The reason is simple: Discovery is really the Michael Burnham show. She is the Mariest Sue who ever Mary Sued. Discovery could have been a really great show if it had been an ensemble show because it has a lot of very interesting characters whom we never explore.

Instead, everything centres around Burnham. She is the reason for the war at the start of the show. She is the magical, fated solution. She is Spock’s (adopted) sister and had immeasurable impact on his life. Even through timey-wimey things, her (biological) mother comes to save her and the universe.

And on top of all that is the crying. Oh, gosh, everything is so emotional on this show. There is a time and place for emotions, but Discovery was too much of it, including inappropriate times. Burnham and her maybe-broken-up-boyfriend stop in the middle of an infiltration in a hostile station to talk about their relationship.

Even the really great characters, Saru and (Emperor Georgiou) centre around Burnham. She is like a sister to Saru, she saved his life, he gives up being a Captain to continue serving under her captaincy. Burnham is Georgiou’s daughter (not actually), and Georgiou’s love for her (as much as she can love) changes her.

No one has a story unless its actually about Burnham.

The best thing about Discovery is it brought Trek back on TV and it gave us the rest of this era of shows.

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SteleTrovilo@beehaw.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not Mary Sues:

Kirk: repeatedly impresses god-like beings with his emotional maturity and reasoning. Fought hand-to-hand with Khan and won. Saved the whales.

Picard: passes Q’s trials and makes a case for humanity’s worth, multiple times. Proves Data’s person-hood. Survives Carassian torture by sheer willpower.

Sisko: chosen as the Emissary. Does wrong and suffers no consequences.

Janeway: holds fast to Federation principles even when it prevents her from getting home; gets home anyway.

Archer: so important that Daniels and the Xindi both fight over him. Ends the Temporal Cold War and founds the Federation.

Mary Sue:

Burnham: starts the Klingon war, freed from prison by a Terran who uses her as a pawn. Gets called out for breaking rules.

Is this right, @Akuchimoya@startrek.website ?

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- Corgana@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Thank you for the sanity. I get so tired hearing Burhnam being held to such an obvious double standard. I wonder why? What is different about the character?
  
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melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I think Picard was worse than Discovery. Discovery had major flaws but there were moments when it really shined. It had some interesting ideas too. It just wasn’t an ensemble show.

Picard is just awful. Mediocre S1-2 that doesn’t know what it’s trying to achieve, and then S3 abandons every plot thread that they bothered to build up in favor of nostalgia baiting and bringing back the Borg, which was very tonally confusing after S2.

The tone is also just bizarrely dire throughout. People complain about Discovery not feeling like Trek, but I had that problem way moreso with Picard. And now it’s this minefield in the canon of the early 25th century that every show that comes after will have to figure out what to do with. At least Discovery going immediately jumping to the far future means it wasn’t able to fuck up the timeline much, and what it did do was cheekily classified.

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maj@cosocial.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@Akuchimoya @cuchi
I am no fan of Discovery but can you re-read that and substitute another name, like I dunno James T Kirk? Why is it always about him? Why is he so good at everything?
Having a female MC does not make it automatically a Mary Sue. Especially not when they are smacked down constantly, shown making lots of mistakes, and having a character development arc.
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Corgana@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

She is the Mariest Sue who ever Mary Sued.

For clarity’s sake, a Mary Sue describes a character who can do no wrong. This is how it’s described on TVTropes:

[A Mary Sue] is exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws.

I’m curious how you square that description of a Mary Sue with Burhnam’s many regular, repeated, failures and flaws as seen on screen and described in the dialogue? As one example, her character is introduced in the very first episode as a misguided mutineer and is demoted for it.

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dkppunk@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s not my favorite Trek, but I do like Discovery. That said, your summary is 100% accurate and emphasizes my least favorite parts of the show.

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