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Comment on If a country needs to employ state-sponsored patriotism, it's usually because there's nothing to be proud of about the country.

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squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

I don’t really feel that that’s the same point.

For example, I live in Vienna. Public transport here is amazing. Housing is pretty great. Education is free and good. Public healthcare is free and really good. I’m going to keep voting and contributing to keep these things good. If things turn bad, the wrong people get into power, and these things will sour, that’s sad. But then I can still move somewhere else.

And no matter what happens with my city, it will not change who I am and/or how good/valuable I am.

And also, it really doesn’t matter how other places are doing. That’s why I really, really disagree with the “patriotism” in the comic. “I’m going to work on my house because it’s the best house” is a pretty stupid thing to say. Does that mean if your house isn’t the best, there’s no point to work on your house? Does that mean you think all other houses suck?

What even is the point of having the “because it’s the best house” in there at all?

I improve my house because I live there, that’s the right reasoning.

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Artisian@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I agree that the first panel is off; I would replace it with “I’m going to work on my house because I want it to be the best house it can be”, or something similar.

And, at least for democracies (or similar), one of their bigger failure modes is that people:

don’t feel like they (do/can/should) contribute to the place they live;

do not value the work that others do for the place and community;

take for granted the natural resources, and don’t safeguard them for the future. Consider how it is absurd for a normal person to run for public service, and how air quality has plummeted in so many places. I think it could be healthy to be proud of a group project you participated in. It’s a bit sad that countries/states/cities/neighborhoods so often fail to be such projects.
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- squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  That sentence would be better.
  
  I think it could be healthy to be proud of a group project you participated in.
  
  That’s totally ok, but it’s not really patriotism, is it? You are proud of an accomplishment. Of a real thing that you did/were part of, that actually changed something.
  
  That’s pretty disconnected from patriotism, which means “I am proud of my country because it’s my country”. Patriotism is hollow. It’s being proud of something by default without anything worth being proud of.
  
  Consider how it is absurd for a normal person to run for public service
  
  In my country it’s quite common that normal people run for lower offices, like district or city level.
  
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  - Artisian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Thank you; I think I understand how you are using patriotism better. (Also jealous that somewhere has destigmatized public office.)
    
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macronage@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
It sounds like you’re proud of your country and want it to improve. That’s what the SMBC comic is saying is “patriotism”. They might have used simpler & fewer words than you did, but that’s only to dumb it down so it’s easily understood.

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- squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  No. I am not proud of my country, that would be stupid. I am proud of my kids, I am proud of my accomplishments, but I certainly are not proud of things I took very little part in making.
  
  Are you proud that air exists? I have better things to be proud of than a country.
  
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  - macronage@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    For example, I live in Vienna. Public transport here is amazing. Housing is pretty great. Education is free and good. Public healthcare is free and really good. I’m going to keep voting and contributing to keep these things good.
    
    Many people would consider this civic pride. You don’t have to.
    
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    squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    First of all, nobody was talking about civic pride, and second, you have to be really stupid to be proud of something you had no part in accomplishing.
    
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