Absolutely! And somehow it’s a part of the same modesty.
Things are what they are. They are not awesome, because there’s always place to make things better. So, if someone says that things are awesome, they are wrong.
At the same time, people are constantly trying to make things better and better, and you trust that they are. (Or: at least you trust they are) So, if someone says things are bad, that’s unfair because things are as well as they can be. And yet, they are not awesome, because they can always be better.
(And then I’m trying to avoid not going for a tirade about the surprisingly high level corruption in Finland and how that’s fed by us being so proud of not having almost any corruption at all…)
We have very little corruption compared to other countries. It’s all relative. Same for the happiness/life satisfaction.
I guess I just disagree with the idea that we aren’t actually as content as the poll shows. I think Finns are very blunt about how things are going. It’s just that comparatively things are pretty okay here.
I really would not say we have less corruption here than in at least some other countries.
Practically all our grocery stores belong to only two companies, known as the S-Group and the K-Group(Now Lidl is growing big enough to kind of be a third player, but it doesn’t really have that much effect yet).
Those two chains agree about the prices four times per year. That is legal in Finland, and therefore does not appear in statistics on illegal corruption. But it is corruption, even though it’s legal.
And of course, continuing on the theme of those two chains: there’s the political system where one of the most efficient ways of getting into communal politics is to be voted into the chair of one regional subdivisions of the S-Group, which is a cooperative company and showing your skills there first. This means that in zoning, the S-Group largely tells the municipalities what to do because such a large share of politicians have connections to it, that a huge swath of people appointed to work in zoning are loyal to that company. That is legal in Finland, and therefore does not appear in statistics on illegal corruption. But it is corruption, even though it’s legal.
And then… Around year 2011 or so it was declared by the Ministry of domestic affairs that because our railway company is an Ltd., the old rule that policemen can use trains for free was considered bribery from that point on, and therefore illegal. I think it was a stupid decision, because policemen using the trains and the conductor knowing where they are is a useful safety feature that can save human lives. But, now that the decision had been made, and everybody working for the police knew it is bribery now, it really was a problem indeed. The policemen knew they are now getting the free rides only because the railway company believes it will gain something from it. And yes, there were investigations into really shady behaviour that never really lead anywhere. The police has been incredibly unable to find clues when it comes to anything the bosses of our railway company do, and nobody can understand why. I saw a few times between 2012 and 2015 how a passenger shows their badge, tells their destination, gets surprised when it turns out that they (gasp!) must buy a ticket! And then they look really embarrassed, because they absolutely knew they were taking a bribe there. And even a sitting place can cost over 100 €, so if you want to go for a holiday to Lapland and back, we’re not talking about pennies… Image
It was around year 2018 or 2021 or so (I don’t remember precisely if it was a bit before COVID-19 or a bit after it), when the Finnish railway company declared that “the free rides for policemen are no longer allowed”. During that time, about a decade, every single person working for the Finnish police knew about the bribery scheme between our railway company and the police. And nothing. No court process, no investigation. Maybe something happened back those five-ish years ago in the police that caused the railway company, VR, to end the bribery. I don’t know. But still, there were so many years where nothing, NOTHING happened about it. Every single policeman in this country devoid of any corruption whatsoever knew about a bribery scheme and using those free rides – taking a bribe to not see whatever illegal the company might do, or at least not see it very well – was commonplace. I’m not sure if even in Bulgaria or Romania there are bribery cases that everyone among their police forces know about and choose not to act on.
Argh, now the text is getting a bit long. Still, it is really difficult for me to believe that this is really the least corrupt country in the world. I’m quite sure that at least all other Nordic countries are doing better, probably also the Benelux countries and Germany.
But, to finish this: We also know we have no corruption, which is nice because that means we don’t need the heavy anti-corruption structures we still had in the 1980’s. We simply don’t need to make such an effort looking for corruption, because our people doesn’t do it. And of course, since we’re not looking very much for corruption, we also don’t find very much of it. Which proves that there’s basically no corruption, which proves that we don’t really need to waste money trying to uncover it. You wouldn’t spend money for finding unicorns, so why spend money finding other things that also don’t exist?
I do agree that many forms of corruption that are common elsewhere don’t exist here. And that’s a good thing. But also, at the same time we have forms of corruption that other countries don’t have. And in international statistics they don’t appear because they are internationally not a relevant phenomenon. What I really don’t like is that this nation thinks it’s free of corruption. Even though our corruption levels are lower than in many other places, corruption is a problem that exists here and our complacency regarding our corruption situation is very dangerous in the longer term. I’ve spend long times in countries with a lot more corruption than Finland, where people also know there is corruption. I find it better for there to be a lot of corruption and people knowing about it than there being relatively little corruption and people assuming it doesn’t exist at all. When people take the existence of corruption into account, the field is leveled to an extent.
(And of course, I have friends here and there who sometimes help me take some shortcuts in my everyday life. Other people have other friends who help them with other shortcuts. But meh, I’m not going to talk more about them, as they are not such a huge thing all in all. This country works so that even if we were to catch the small players, the big ones would be completely unaffected.)
I’m not sure what sort of corruption you feel like others don’t have. Municipal dealings, old boy networks, quid pro quo, all the sort of corruption we think of that are biggest in Finland others also have but they also have the sort of blatant corruption and bribery that we think of as “proper” corruption. Fight for the top spot can be tough and we are currently in #2 behind Denmark, so that’s one Nordic country that’s ahead of us on Corruption Perception Index. So we aren’t uniquely uncorrupted or something, just that we have less of it than most others.
Corruption Perception Index isn’t susceptible to “it’s legal so we rank higher” bias. What could affect is that if some practises aren’t seen as corruption, but imo that’s common for many other places too. “Quid pro quo/old boy networks aren’t corruption, it’s just friends helping each other out”, “this isn’t corruption, it just smoothes the process”, “I’m just showing appreciation, I don’t expect them to do anything for me” etc are common excuses elsewhere too. I’d say more blatant the everyday corruption is, easier it is to excuse and not see the small favours and such as corruption.
And I don’t think we truly believe there’s no corruption in Finland. As with the happiness ranking, Finns love nothing more than to rush into to say how full of corruption we are and make a case that we’re actually really corrupt (forgetting that the ranking doesn’t say we don’t have corruption but rather that we have less of it than most).
Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
Absolutely! And somehow it’s a part of the same modesty.
Things are what they are. They are not awesome, because there’s always place to make things better. So, if someone says that things are awesome, they are wrong. At the same time, people are constantly trying to make things better and better, and you trust that they are. (Or: at least you trust they are) So, if someone says things are bad, that’s unfair because things are as well as they can be. And yet, they are not awesome, because they can always be better.
(And then I’m trying to avoid not going for a tirade about the surprisingly high level corruption in Finland and how that’s fed by us being so proud of not having almost any corruption at all…)
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
We have very little corruption compared to other countries. It’s all relative. Same for the happiness/life satisfaction.
I guess I just disagree with the idea that we aren’t actually as content as the poll shows. I think Finns are very blunt about how things are going. It’s just that comparatively things are pretty okay here.
Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
I really would not say we have less corruption here than in at least some other countries.
Practically all our grocery stores belong to only two companies, known as the S-Group and the K-Group(Now Lidl is growing big enough to kind of be a third player, but it doesn’t really have that much effect yet). Those two chains agree about the prices four times per year. That is legal in Finland, and therefore does not appear in statistics on illegal corruption. But it is corruption, even though it’s legal. And of course, continuing on the theme of those two chains: there’s the political system where one of the most efficient ways of getting into communal politics is to be voted into the chair of one regional subdivisions of the S-Group, which is a cooperative company and showing your skills there first. This means that in zoning, the S-Group largely tells the municipalities what to do because such a large share of politicians have connections to it, that a huge swath of people appointed to work in zoning are loyal to that company. That is legal in Finland, and therefore does not appear in statistics on illegal corruption. But it is corruption, even though it’s legal.
And then… Around year 2011 or so it was declared by the Ministry of domestic affairs that because our railway company is an Ltd., the old rule that policemen can use trains for free was considered bribery from that point on, and therefore illegal. I think it was a stupid decision, because policemen using the trains and the conductor knowing where they are is a useful safety feature that can save human lives. But, now that the decision had been made, and everybody working for the police knew it is bribery now, it really was a problem indeed. The policemen knew they are now getting the free rides only because the railway company believes it will gain something from it. And yes, there were investigations into really shady behaviour that never really lead anywhere. The police has been incredibly unable to find clues when it comes to anything the bosses of our railway company do, and nobody can understand why. I saw a few times between 2012 and 2015 how a passenger shows their badge, tells their destination, gets surprised when it turns out that they (gasp!) must buy a ticket! And then they look really embarrassed, because they absolutely knew they were taking a bribe there. And even a sitting place can cost over 100 €, so if you want to go for a holiday to Lapland and back, we’re not talking about pennies… Image
It was around year 2018 or 2021 or so (I don’t remember precisely if it was a bit before COVID-19 or a bit after it), when the Finnish railway company declared that “the free rides for policemen are no longer allowed”. During that time, about a decade, every single person working for the Finnish police knew about the bribery scheme between our railway company and the police. And nothing. No court process, no investigation. Maybe something happened back those five-ish years ago in the police that caused the railway company, VR, to end the bribery. I don’t know. But still, there were so many years where nothing, NOTHING happened about it. Every single policeman in this country devoid of any corruption whatsoever knew about a bribery scheme and using those free rides – taking a bribe to not see whatever illegal the company might do, or at least not see it very well – was commonplace. I’m not sure if even in Bulgaria or Romania there are bribery cases that everyone among their police forces know about and choose not to act on.
Argh, now the text is getting a bit long. Still, it is really difficult for me to believe that this is really the least corrupt country in the world. I’m quite sure that at least all other Nordic countries are doing better, probably also the Benelux countries and Germany.
But, to finish this: We also know we have no corruption, which is nice because that means we don’t need the heavy anti-corruption structures we still had in the 1980’s. We simply don’t need to make such an effort looking for corruption, because our people doesn’t do it. And of course, since we’re not looking very much for corruption, we also don’t find very much of it. Which proves that there’s basically no corruption, which proves that we don’t really need to waste money trying to uncover it. You wouldn’t spend money for finding unicorns, so why spend money finding other things that also don’t exist? I do agree that many forms of corruption that are common elsewhere don’t exist here. And that’s a good thing. But also, at the same time we have forms of corruption that other countries don’t have. And in international statistics they don’t appear because they are internationally not a relevant phenomenon. What I really don’t like is that this nation thinks it’s free of corruption. Even though our corruption levels are lower than in many other places, corruption is a problem that exists here and our complacency regarding our corruption situation is very dangerous in the longer term. I’ve spend long times in countries with a lot more corruption than Finland, where people also know there is corruption. I find it better for there to be a lot of corruption and people knowing about it than there being relatively little corruption and people assuming it doesn’t exist at all. When people take the existence of corruption into account, the field is leveled to an extent.
(And of course, I have friends here and there who sometimes help me take some shortcuts in my everyday life. Other people have other friends who help them with other shortcuts. But meh, I’m not going to talk more about them, as they are not such a huge thing all in all. This country works so that even if we were to catch the small players, the big ones would be completely unaffected.)
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
I’m not sure what sort of corruption you feel like others don’t have. Municipal dealings, old boy networks, quid pro quo, all the sort of corruption we think of that are biggest in Finland others also have but they also have the sort of blatant corruption and bribery that we think of as “proper” corruption. Fight for the top spot can be tough and we are currently in #2 behind Denmark, so that’s one Nordic country that’s ahead of us on Corruption Perception Index. So we aren’t uniquely uncorrupted or something, just that we have less of it than most others.
Corruption Perception Index isn’t susceptible to “it’s legal so we rank higher” bias. What could affect is that if some practises aren’t seen as corruption, but imo that’s common for many other places too. “Quid pro quo/old boy networks aren’t corruption, it’s just friends helping each other out”, “this isn’t corruption, it just smoothes the process”, “I’m just showing appreciation, I don’t expect them to do anything for me” etc are common excuses elsewhere too. I’d say more blatant the everyday corruption is, easier it is to excuse and not see the small favours and such as corruption.
And I don’t think we truly believe there’s no corruption in Finland. As with the happiness ranking, Finns love nothing more than to rush into to say how full of corruption we are and make a case that we’re actually really corrupt (forgetting that the ranking doesn’t say we don’t have corruption but rather that we have less of it than most).