Comment on New executive order puts all grants under political control
squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 days agoI heard that argument so often that the second amendment is there to overthrow tyrannical governments and I heard that from the people claiming that they need guns for that explicit purpose. For work reasons I have quite a bit to do with people from the mountain west and that’s a very common talking point there.
What we can do is defend our families, neighbors and ourselves when ICE comes knocking.
That’s seriously even more whack than thinking a bunch of gun nuts could overthrow the government with a “well regulated militia”.
When you start shooting at ICE, you get another Waco massacre.
Look at any (and I repeat ANY) other example of a country sliding into fascism. Name even one where owning a gun and “defending” yourself or your family lead to anything but all of them laying dead on the floor.
shalafi@lemmy.world 1 day ago
OK, I’ll grant that I don’t talk to people from your region, so I can believe that. My point was about talking points in the wider gun nut world. Yeah, sometimes on obscure forums you might see that as a cheesy post signature, but that’s about it. None of the mainstream GunTubers give the idea so much as a passing mention. And as for anecdotes, I’m not sure I’ve heard the idea expressed IRL. LOL, and I’m originally from Oklahoma!
If you want to dig through my comments, I have plainly stated, many times, that I understand armed resistance will end my life. And that idea scares the crap out of me. I am well aware that I’d be shaking life a leaf. OTOH, I’ve faced certain death twice and saved my own life, did quite well. (Not that I’d get out of an ICE firefight alive!)
I’ve thought on this much, got a dog in this fight, and I’ve drawn a line in the sand. If warrantless, masked men come to our home to take my wife, I’m fighting. One would have a very hard time getting me to draw my weapon, but that scenario would git 'er done.
So if that’s whack, what would you do? Lay down and trust the rule of law to work out? I’m betting we agree that said “rule of law” is getting close to over, and it’s already over if you’re brown. Could you live with yourself if your immigrant wife was dragged from your living room, screaming and terrified, to be sent to a concentration camp? I’ve decided to die with my boots on.
And what might the imagined firefight accomplish other than my immediate death? I have no idea, never can tell what stories gain traction and what stories are told as “a lone nut”, but the telling would likely end up more like Ruby Ridge than Waco. And this particular story hasn’t been told yet, which is surprising. Maybe I’ll be the one to tell it? Gods I hope not.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 day ago
So what happens in reality is that once you draw the gun, you and your family are dead. By drawing a gun you doomed them.
If you value your family, you get out early. Pack up, move to a different country. It might be difficult, it might take a while, but if you start early enough you might just make it.
The Jews who moved out of Germany in 1933 could still sell of their homes and belongings, get a passport and visa comparatively easily and got out. The Jews who tried that in 1939 were in a much tougher spot and a staggering amount of them didn’t make it any more.
So if you expect that there is a realistic chance that your family is sent to a concentration camp, get your family to safety instead of hanging around until it’s too late and then get them and yourself killed. You don’t become a hero for killing a few low-level grunts while dooming your family.
Ruby Ridge happened in a relatively free country. It was a huge misstep of a government agency and this went through the media.
If you kill some ICE people, then the telling will be that you are a crazy leftist terrorist who harboured illegal criminal rapists and that you then murdered some officers in a terrorist attack. The USA is not a free country any more.
Look at German newspaper reports from 1933 through 1939 to see what you can expect within the next months and years in the USA.