Comment on Proton’s Lumo AI chatbot: not end-to-end encrypted, not open source

• DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Zero-access encryption

  Your chats are stored using our battle-tested zero-access encryption, so even we can’t read them, similar to other Proton services such as Proton Mail, Proton Drive, and Proton Pass.

  from protons own website.

  And why this is not true is explained in the article from the main post.

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  • loudwhisper@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    They actually don’t explain it in the article. The author doesn’t seem to understand why there is a claim of e2e chat history, and zero-access for chats. The point of zero access is trust. You need to trust the provider to do it, because it’s not cryptographically veritable. Upstream there is no encryption, and zero-access means providing the service (usually, unencrypted), then encrypting and discarding the plaintext.

    Of course the model needs to have access to the context in plaintext, exactly like proton has access to emails sent to non-PGP addresses. What they can do is encrypt the chat histories, because these don’t need active processing, and encrypt on the fly the communication between the model (which needs plaintext access) and the client. The same is what happens with scribe.

    I personally can’t stand LLMs, I am waiting eagerly for this bubble to collapse, but this article is essentially a nothing burger.

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    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You understand that, but try to read it from the point of view of an average user that knows next to nothing about cyber security and LLMs. It sounds like it’s e2ee that email and drive are famous for. To us, that’s obviously impossible but most people will interpret that marketing this way.

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      • loudwhisper@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        How would you explain it in a way that is both nontechnical, accurate and differentiates yourself from all the other companies that are not doing something even remotely similar? I am asking genuinely because from the perspective of a user that decided to trust the company, zero-access is functionally much closer to e2ee than it is to “regular services”, which is the alternative.

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  • jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This I can agree on. They would have been better served and made it clearer to their users by clarifying that it is not ‘zero trust’ and not e2ee. At the end of the day, once the masses start trusting a company they stop digging deep, just read the first couple of paragraphs of the details, if at all, but some of us are always digging to make sure we can find the weakest links in our security as well as our privacy to try and strengthen them. So yeah, pretty stupid of them.

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