YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
Lemmy is mostly men, it is hard to share any other perspective. SA is hard to get a conviction in. If there isn’t physical evidence like semen, then the victim is called a liar. If there is semen evidence, then the victim is called someone who regretted their choice and is now getting back at the person. (And this is assuming the perpetrator was male, there can be female perpetrators too). A lot of victims do not come forward about what happened because they don’t want to be called a liar and labeled a pariah publicly. The absolute shame and rejection when someone doesn’t believe you. This subject is pretty sensitive to me and lemmy just really, really disappoints sometimes.
Questions:
Would you be ok with you or someone you love more than yourself being sent to prison on a false accusation as long as a larger number of guilty people also get imprisoned?
Do you think false accusations don’t happen?
I generally take people at their word in my day to day interactions. I’d believe you if you told me something. But I wouldn’t enforce laws on people with only eyewitness testimony. Eyewitness testimony has been proven unreliable.
I get that men are terrified about false rape accusations, even though there is an extremely low chance of it happening, they are afraid. When someone talks about sexual assault, in their mind they feel they need to defend themselves by bringing up false accusations because in their mind it will discourage this crime, bring light to real victims, and thus protect themselves. I’m not a man but this is what I’ve been told. Then you have victims, who simply want their rapist and other rapists to face justice. They often know others around them who have also been sexually assaulted. When they talk about sexual assault and someone else brings up false accusations, it feels like they don’t actually care about the victims and just want to soapbox about false accusations, stealing the spotlight. They might even be a toxic part of the manosphere.
The nature of the crime means it is usually the victim and the perpetrator alone and not in public, and the victim is more likely to know who the assaulter is. It can be a family member, friend, partner, etc. There usually isn’t much evidence to prove sexual assault. So we have a problem. As you said, you don’t believe a hefty amount of these sexual assaults should have laws enforced on them. I don’t have a solution, other than a suggestion that people should be more empathetic towards victims. And not ask questions like yours to victims.
1. How many rapists are you ok with letting go free so that you or someone you know doesn’t have to go to prison for something they didn’t do? 1,000? 10,000? Every single rapist? Is it better to let every single criminal go free so that you do not have to go to prison? 2. Do you think rape/sexual assault don’t happen?
Uh yeah, I’m not going to go to jail over dishonesty. I’m not going to play martyr for some unknown mass of strangers that doesn’t care about me. And you talk about SA and those victims but prison is also a terrible fate unto itself that your argument entirely ignores. It’s like flippant to send someone to prison for years. Imagine if people were that dismissive about SA. Like prison conditions aren’t arguably worse being a risk if consistent SA and who knows how much other horrors.
Should I now counter argue that you bringing up SA without acknowledging the horrors of prison is dismissive of men’s issues because of a for profit prison industrial complex?
Everything affects everything. You bring up something, someone is always going to bring up another side. That’s how discourse works.
But yeah, at the end of the day, my answer is ya, I won’t punish the innocent in order to punish the guilty as a general rule. It may not be utilitarian, but that’s what my gut says is moral.
Is it better to let every single criminal go free so that you do not have to go to prison?
While that is a wild example that will never happen, I’m not a martyr nor planning/wanting to be one, so likely yes, I’d sacrifice a whole lot to protect my own life and willing to bet many others would too if they had to make that choice.
For most, there’s no point in making the world a better place by sacrificing your own life, because you won’t be around to see it. Yes, something about planting a tree whose shade you’ll never sit in…
I identify as a woman and the “The internet is literally all men anyone who says they’re a woman is a liar” thing is really demoralizing.
My first experiences on the internet were riddled with misogyny. As a child, I was told I am lying about being a girl and didn’t sound like one. I had many guys tell me “tits or gtfo” when learning I’m a girl, usually after they asked me if I was a girl. I tried playing some multiplayer team games online and was hazed once they found out I was a girl, multiple times. I refuse to play those games now. Even as an adult, I’ve had gamer guys think I’m great until they learn I’m a feminist, then the hate comes back. I’ve dated an adult man who belittled me for playing Sims because people with real lives play games like Overwatch. At least mainstream media felt like there were more women around, lemmy just feels more centered for men :/
Don’t take shit from anyone who willingly plays overwatch
SA is hard to get a conviction in.
Yeah. It turns out that something that usually has no witnesses beyond the accused and accuser, often has little or no evidence other than the accusation itself and the sole difference between it and an otherwise common and legal act exists solely in the mind of the accuser is difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
solely in the mind of the accuser
Wait what? Ever heard of consent? No is no? Coercion? The most common definition of rape?
There’s a huge grey area between people having consensual sex and rape, but rape is not in said gray area.
The distinction between rape and sex is consent. Whether a given sex act is consensual or not exists only in the minds of those involved in it (consent is a mental state, not something directly observable from outside), unless communicated and when communicated only the communication exists which is likely not in any fixed form.
Not sure if you were just reiterating, but yes it is depressing. It takes bravery to step forward knowing that it can cause further damage to oneself. Not just socially but mentally. I don’t have a perfect solution to this. But when the perpetrator is Trump, I doubt justice is going to happen.
If there isn’t physical evidence like semen, then the victim is called a liar.
They are called liars when there is physical evidence. Not to mention the massive backlog of processing rape kits.
I absolutely agree. If rape kits are made, they can be backlogged and then degrade, which is extremely depressing to think about.
Threads like this need to be followed up with eyebleach (a community full of cute animals and such).
Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Has there been a recent survey?