Comment on YSK that apart from not having a car, the single greatest thing you can do for the climate is simply eating less red meat

DogWater@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• dropped_packet@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Who looks at this world and wants to bring life into it? I fundamentally cannot wrap my head arround that.

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  • Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah. Just had this convo with my partner two days ago.

    Reasons why I don’t want kids.

    Number one, they can’t consent to being born, If given the choice, I would not consent to being born right now, why should I force that on someone else.

    Number two, we can’t afford kids right now, even with both of us working full time jobs. (Not bragging, but both my partner and I make over the median household income for our area. I legit have no idea how other people do it, because we are paycheck to paycheck right now.)

    Number three, even though abortion is legally protected in the constitution of my state, our legislators at the state and the federal levels are seeking to undo those protections against the will of the people. There is no guarantee that if we had a complicated pregnancy, that they would survive or even be able to find healthcare.

    Number four, we are knowingly perpetuating an ongoing climate disaster. I can’t in good faith bring someone into this world knowing that they will be displaced or die because the part of the planent they live on may become inhospitable due to our inaction.

    Number five, we’re seeing the rise of far right antagonist fascist movement worldwide. At this point a global war for basic human rights is inevitable, if not already started.

    Number six, there are always hundreds of thousands of children stuck in the foster/adoption system who are destined to struggle for the rest of their lives because of a lack of family support. I would adopt long before I would consider bringing another person into this world.

    Thanks for attending my doom rant.

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    • Lumisal@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Number one, they can’t consent to being born, If given the choice, I would not consent to being born right now, why should I force that on someone else.

      All your points are solid except this one. This one just gives the pro-birthers ammunition to use and strengthen a belief. Something which does not exist nor has any consciousness isn’t capable of the concept of consent. Consent is a social construct created by humans (which unfortunately not everyone believes in), but a fetus isn’t yet human (in your example, it’s not even a fetus but the concept of a human, which is even further abstract. This is like complaining a painting did not consent to existing).

      It also is a rationally failed thought in that such a hypothetical still non existent being also can’t communicate a desire to exist. It can’t communicate anything, actually.

      Projecting your own depression into it doesn’t help anyone, including yourself.

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      • Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Consent is a social construct created by humans

        Consent exists outside of humans, it just what we’ve decided to call “respecting autonomy”.

        I don’t think it is forced birther ammo. Something that does not exist cannot consent. A fetus is just a collection of cells, it has the same ability to consent as a finger or a liver, in the vast majority of abortions it has no more individual identity than a tumor. Consent of the fetus shouldn’t be a criteria for abortion anyway, it’s consent of the individual that it is taking resources from that matters.

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    • DogWater@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is a perfect explanation.

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    • dropped_packet@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is point for point the conversation I had with my partner as well. I wish it wasn’t like this, but here we are.

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    • callcc@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      If you don’t consent to being born into this world right now, would that not mean that you should just kill yourself? I off course don’t mean to say that you should, but I’m curious why you have a drive to live, and thereby consuming precious resources that could benefit less defeatist people. Or would you have chosen differently if you had been asked when you were born.

      I understand that we seem to be in a global situation where imminent doom is unavoidable but maybe you should ask older people or read up, because I think these things happen on a regular basis.

      And no, I don’t want to downplay the consequences of the multiple clusterfuck of global catastrophes we’re heading into (since a long time). Maybe I’m just a hopeless optimist :).

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      • Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Haven’t got the balls to kill myself. Other people depend on me. I’m bought into the life ecosystem. Functionally, I think dying is much more stressful and scary than never existing. I’m also not a defeatist, I’m working to fix those things, but I don’t exactly have a lot of say it how it plays out.

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  • misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I just had a kid and I also believe the world is on fire. Firstly we’re extraordinarily privileged and even then I wasn’t sure. Secondly we just wanted to and are able to, it’s not excessively stressful because we have enough money and good jobs (my panic attacks have been the normal new parent variety, not the “world is on fire” kind). Third I guess it gives me some hope. Our kid will have their own path. But whatever they choose they’ll be trained to spot disinformation and religious thinking like a sane adult so that gives me some hope. Hopefully it’s enough to counteract the 100 other Idiocracy right wing children.

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  • zeca@lemmy.eco.br ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I want to, but its a desire, its not rational.

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  • DogWater@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I agree completely. I’m lucky to have a partner that agrees

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