I won’t say one is right and another is wrong
Why is it so hard for people to understand that imposing one’s will on another is fundamentally wrong?
Comment on Describe what conservativism or what being a conservative means to you.
mo_ztt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Disclaimer, I’m far to the left personally. With that in mind:
One definition is that on the left, everyone should be able to be however they want to be, and you shouldn’t infringe people’s freedom by telling them they have to be this way or that way, if that’s not in their nature. On the right, there’s a right way to live and a wrong way to live, and it’s okay if the people who are “in the right” and hold some natural authority as a result are telling the people who don’t have their act together (financially, life-organization-wise, sexually, whatever) what’s what.
I won’t say one is right and another is wrong; they apply well or badly in different contexts. Academia tends to be left-wing. Militaries tend to be right-wing. It’s generally good to be on the left if you’re trying to understand the world and figure things out without a preconceived notion of what the right and wrong answers are. It’s generally good to be on the right if you need action, strength of character, ability to defeat your enemies or defend yourself without getting extensively hung up in second-guessing.
This doesn’t apply very well to the modern US political landscape, which is pretty far afield of the traditional definitions of left and right, but that’s a separate topic.
Let the hate-responses commence 😃
kool_newt@lemm.ee 1 year ago
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Everything is forcing something on somebody.
Do you think Riley Gaines is wrong for not wanting to compete with trans women? That’s was imposed on her when she didn’t want it.
kool_newt@lemm.ee 1 year ago
She is not forced into playing sports first of all. What about the imposition to play with Jenny? That bitch
This is not what I’m talking about silly.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
She is forced to play with a biological male. That’s enforcing views on someone else.
It’s how the world runs.
mo_ztt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s not always, though.
If someone shoplifts, the police should come by and impose their will on the shoplifter that they’re under arrest. If you’re raising a child, and the child doesn’t want to mow the lawn or keep their room clean, my opinion is that it’s your responsibility as a parent to address it in some fashion, instead of just saying “Oh well, he doesn’t want to.”
This is preceisely what I was saying: There are contexts where you can say “X is right and Y is wrong and we need to enforce that,” and other contexts where yes, trying to enforce it is some form of human rights violation. There can legitimately be disagreement about which is which, but pretending that everything is the second case is just as wrong as pretending everything is the first case.
kool_newt@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If someone shoplifts, the police should come by and impose their will on the shoplifter that they’re under arrest.
This is the authoritarian mindset – I don’t believe ruining someone’s life and putting them in danger of being shot is the solution to likely petty losses.
Also, business owners are capitalists and are already robbing their communities, I have no empathy for them.
Parent child relationships I’m willing to bend a bit but there are enough abusive parents out there that I don’t believe that parents have ultimate authority to impose their will on their children. It takes a village…
mo_ztt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is the authoritarian mindset – I don’t believe ruining someone’s life and putting them in danger of being shot is the solution to likely petty losses.
How about if someone breaks in your apartment and threatens your safety? Would you support the cops being authoritarian with them, maybe putting their life in danger if they’re resistive against being arrested, in that case?
MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Is it wrong for me to want to impose my will onto others and make them not rape kids?
jimbolauski@kbin.social 1 year ago
Your straw man fails to account for something very simple. The rapists is imposing their will on the victim, stopping others from imposing their will on others is the line between anarchy
MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Just saying the name of a fallacy doesn’t make your moronic comment any less retarded
kool_newt@lemm.ee 1 year ago
The only time it’s acceptable to impose your will on another is self-defense or community defense.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I would not say that’s the lefts view at all. Covid is a perfect example where the left wanted to control every facet of a persons life.
Conservatives lean towards social order by allowing people to do as they see fit unless the action is damaging to society. We prefer tradition over fads.
Academics use to be more conservative but liberals slowly overtook them as they couldn’t find gainful work otherwise. They like to talk about theory rather than results.
mo_ztt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So I think it goes without saying that I don’t agree with… well, pretty much any of this. If you really want to talk about this I think it’s gonna be a little bit of a hard road, but I’ll take a stab at it.
Your whole message is generalities. That’s a difficult starting point for a debate, because my generalities are radically different than these, but it’s hard to talk about it because these kinds of broad statements are hard to argue for or against factually. It’s just my world view versus your world view and us hurling disagreements at each other.
Let’s start here: Would you describe Ron DeSantis as a conservative? Would you describe Biden as being on the left? I can talk to you about specific policies from DeSantis and Biden, and how they match up with your generalities, and it can be at least a factual conversation. Also, who are some examples of who you mean by “academics”? (some of the conservative ones who used to be around and some of the liberal ones who are currently around)
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
No I do not consider de Santis a traditional conservative. I am not sure how I would define him. He did well with Covid by letting people make decisions. I agree with him removing the special district from Disney but I don’t like how he’s turned it into a petty fight.
Biden is left but he’s disorganized. He can’t think past his nose. He isn’t far left. Putin speaks highly of him for their similar ideologies.
Academics. People who work in academia. When I went to college almost all my teachers were conservative. I only had one liberal teacher and that was my English teacher.
I teach college courses on the side and I’ve seen the change from facts to feelings.
mo_ztt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hm. Okay, here’s where I’m coming from: I’ve talked to a lot of people on the right who in my opinion say stuff, or think stuff about the world, that doesn’t hold up to factual scrutiny. They hear a lot of people say certain things, and so they start saying it too, but they resist talking about it in a way that pins it down to facts; they just repeat the general viewpoint. I’m asking you specific questions about e.g. who are some academics who exemplify who you’re talking about, so I can get my head around what you’re trying to say as a specific thing that can be tested factually, as opposed to just a generality.
IDK if that conversation is something you’re interested in. Out of curiosity, what college did you go to with all these conservative teachers? I went quite a while ago, and I remember one English teacher who was visibly liberal, and one econ teacher who was visibly conservative, and all the rest were apolitical as far as my knowledge of them.
Can you send me the quote?
Right, on this I think I know exactly what you’re talking about and I probably agree with your view on the people you’re talking about. A certain section of the academic left in the US has been skating towards something very weird that I think is un-fact-based, in a way that’s actually very similar to the way I think a lot of people on the modern American right are un-fact-based.