Comment on Socialism is the actual teaching of Jesus

Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• DaedalousIlios@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Jesus Christ believes himself to be the Jewish Messiah. The man literally was going to be king of Israel after kicking the Romans out of their land. So like… Yeah. He was also an authoritarian.

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  • plyth@feddit.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    after kicking the Romans out of their land

    citation needed

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    • DaedalousIlios@pawb.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3…

      Matthew 16:13-20 NRSV

      13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist but others Elijah and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah,[a] the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter,[b] and on this rock[c] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was[d] the Messiah.[e]

      But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I put you under oath before the living God, tell us if you are the Messiah,[k] the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you,

      From now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

      65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has blasphemed! Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy. 66 What do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death.” 67 Then they spat in his face and struck him, and some slapped him, 68 saying, “Prophesy to us, you Messiah![l] Who is it that struck you?”

      From the NSRV, one of the preferred standards of Biblical scholars. A few places where Christ, if not outright says, heavily implies he is the Messiah, which is the reason the Jewish leaders wanted him put to the death.

      I do not have access to the full article to give, but Bart Erhman also goes over some of these points in the free point of this article: ehrmanblog.org/jesus-claim-to-be-the-messiah/

      Of most interest to my point is this bit:

      Jesus’ proclamation was all about the coming kingdom of God. He was an apocalypticist who believed that God would soon intervene in the course of history, overthrow the forces of evil, and establish a good (and very real, political) kingdom here on earth. His listeners had to turn to God in preparation for this imminent end.

      There is also this summary from Wikipedia regarding a King Messiah, which is the one I believe most Christians believe Christ was laying claim to:

      In Jewish eschatology, the Messiah is a future Jewish king from the Davidic line, who is expected to be anointed with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age and world to come.[1][2][8] The Messiah is often referred to as “King Messiah” (Hebrew: מלך משיח, romanized: melekh mashiach, Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: מַלכָא (הוּא) מְשִיחָא, romanized: malkā (hu) mšiḥā[9]).[10]

      The link is here if you would like to see the sources : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_in_Judaism

      In general, we can also see in both Jewish and Christian scripture that a Messiah was a figure that would rise up and deliver the Jewish people from their oppressors. Depending on your religion (or lack there of) and theology, the expectations vary. Earlier in Judaism it could be anybody who freed the Jews such as Cyrus.

      However, as time went on, the Messiah became a cosmic figure who would not only restore Israel’s independence, but would also destroy God’s enemies, rally the Jewish people from across the world, establish the Kingdom of God here on earth as a real, physical, political entity, and rule like a king as God’s emmisarry here on earth.

      There’s nothing about this that isn’t authoritarian, it just so happens to be benevolent.

      There is also far, far more to this topic with many different views ans takes to it because both Christianity and Judaism have a stake in it, and neither of these religions are monolithic. Judaism, specifically being absolutely ancient and having transformed significantly since its earliest records while the beliefs itself predate even the earliest written records. So of course, this is not the only lens with which to view it, but this is the most likely role that Jesus Christ was attempting to fill, the claim that got him killed, and the role most Christians believe he will finish when he returns.

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      • plyth@feddit.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I was wondering when he drove out the Romans. This reply must be meant for another comment.

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• Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Socialism (not social democracy) tends to go that way 😅

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  • Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    A system in which power is held by a single individual is by definition not socialist.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah it just ends up like that.

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      • Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        When something socialist ends up as something not socialist, that thing is not socialist. You get that, right?

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  • MotoAsh@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The fact you can so boldly miss the entire point of social -ism is hilarious and sad.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I don’t miss the point, I just point out the empiric results (debate me on that if you want to, I don’t know everything). I don’t even express any feelings pro/con socialism in my post, at all.

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      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        A label hijacked by conmen is not an accurate representation of what something is supposed to actually be.

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• 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The intersection between Authoritarianism and Socialism:

  It’s just a regular venn diagram

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