Comment on libmem_cpy-strnrrn-std-clib_Cmvaeffc_ld-TWA_nif.aarch64(32bit)2-0.13.2-23.2.so.7(3).1.1.gz.conf

words_number@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• scurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Yes. Memory and storage were at a very high premium until the 1990s, and when C was first being developed, it wasn’t uncommon for computers to output to printers (that’s why print() and co are named what they are), so every character was at a premium. In the latter case, you were literally paying in ink and paper by the character. These contributed to this convention that we’re still stuck with today in C.

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  • zqwzzle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    IIRC older DOS versions were also limited to 8.3 filenames, so even filenames had a max limit of 8 characters + 3 extension. May it was a limitation of the file system, can’t quite remember.

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    • scurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      At one point it was both. At one point they internally added support for longer file names in DOS, and then a later version of the filesystem also started supporting it. I think that on DOS and Windows (iirc even today), they never actually solved it, and paths on Windows and NTFS can only be 256 characters long in total or something (I don’t remember what the exact limit was/is).

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      • isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It’s 256, unless you enable something in the registry. NTFS supports paths longer than 256, funnily enough.

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  • words_number@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Thanks for the insight! I think this kind of convention that once made some sense, is now exclusively harmful, but is still followed meticulously, is often called “tradition” and is one of the high speed engines that let humanity drive towards extinction.

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    • scurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I agree, and these conventions are being followed less over time. Since the 1990s, Windows world, Objective-C, and C++ have been migrating away (to mixed results), and even most embedded projects have been too. The main problem is that the standard library is already like that, and one of C’s biggest selling point is that you can still use source written >40 years ago, and interact with that. So just changing that, at that point just use Go or something. I also want to say, shoutout to GNU for being just so obstinate about changing nothing except for what they make evil about style. Gotta be one of my top 5 ‘why can’t you just be good leaders, GNU?’ moments.

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      • words_number@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        at that point just use Go or something

        *Rust (obviously!)

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  • QuazarOmega@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Wait, but they didn’t print out the source code right? Or did they use teletypes to develop?

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    • xchgeaxeax@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      or did they use teletypes to develop

      Basically yeah. ed the editor was designed with that in mind

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      • QuazarOmega@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Oh, that makes a lot of sense then.

        After all, it is the standard text editor

        spoiler

        uff, doesn’t feel right if it isn’t KasaneTeto saying this :/

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• mustardman@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I worked with a complier that would assume only compare the first 8 characters and would treat it the same afterwards.

  Compiler copyright was around 1990.

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• nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  They did, with core you could be paying for many dollars per bit of memory.

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• NateSwift@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I’ve heard arguments that back in ye old days each row only had 80 characters and variable names were shortened so you didn’t have to scroll the page back and forth

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  • Knusper@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’ve already felt like I should choose shorter names in a (shitty) project where the customer asked us to use an auto-formatter and a max line-width of 120 characters.

    Because ultimately, I choose expressive variable names for readability. But an auto-formatter gladly fucks up your readability, breaking your line at some random ass point, unless your line does not need to be broken up.

    And so you start negotiating whether you really need certain information in a variable name for the price of badly broken lines.

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    • bleistift2@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      120 characters is quite much, though.

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      • Knusper@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah, I meant it as an example, where I was still granted relatively luxurious conditions, but even those already caused me to compromise on variable names.

        I’d say, 95% of my lines of code do fit into 120 characters easily. It’s those 5% that pained me.

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• AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  We were limited to a certain number of characters for filenames, way back in the Apple ]|[ days. IIRC it was 8

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