Comment on Not only do we humans have a common ancestor with primates still living in trees, we have a common ancestor with the trees.

myrmidex@lemmy.nogods.be ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• fubbernuckin@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’ll be fine. Sharks are older than trees so we can switch to them.

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• givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I mean, people already are…

  We don’t have a better definition for consciousness then “it’s what anesthesia stops” and we don’t have a better idea about what anesthesia does than “stops consciousness”. So it’s a chicken/egg thing.

  The thing is, anesthesia works on everything, humans, animals, plants, even single celled organisms.

  Literally everything is consciousness. Tomatoes even feel pain thru our most common definitions.

  So yeah, people that claim to be vegan because of animal suffering are still causing suffering and pain to life, then ending that life.

  You’d need to be some super specific type of vegan where you only eat fruits because those specifically evolved to be eaten in a symbiotic relationship with animals.

  But like, I’m pretty sure that would just give you organic diabetes or something.

  So everyone draws their personal line wherever, but none of us really have an “ethical diet”

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  • myrmidex@lemmy.nogods.be ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    TIL! Never heard that definition, thanks for that.

    As for your point, it’s one I like to make sometimes, even though I’m fully in favor of veganism. One just cannot avoid trampling ants when walking. It’s such a fine line, even a paradox that keeps sucking me in. None of the extremes would work: eat everything vs eat nothing. The line drawn by society will always seem arbitrary, no matter where it’s at.

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    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      TIL! Never heard that definition, thanks for that.

      Yeah, it’s pretty accurate and comes from the guy most equipped to talk about what consciousness is.

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff

      He’s spent the last 30 years working on consciousness with literally the world’s smartest physicist if not human:

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Penrose

      Like, you know how everyone knows Stephen Hawking? Penrose was the guy doing the hard science to finish up Eisntein’s work, Hawking was the “face” who explained it to people. When it was just Penrose and Hawking working on something, Hawking was the dumb guy at the table. Which is just wild.

      But for the longest time people said Hameroff and Penrose couldn’t have been right because quantum entanglement couldn’t happen somewhere as “warm and wet” as the brain. About 11 months ago we found out microtubules can not only work as tubes that can sustain entanglement, it can sustain quantum superposition.

      So, another decade or two and we should have a better answer for what consciousness is and what anesthesia actually does. But for now, that’s the best we can do

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    • INeedMana@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      One just cannot avoid trampling ants when walking

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa_in_Jainism#Ascetic_p…

      Jain ascetics sweep the ground before them to avoid injuring the most minuscule forms of life. They generally brush the ground clear of insects before they tread. Digambara monks do not wear any clothes and eat food only when it is not prepared for themselves. Ascetics of the Śvētāmbara tradition wear a small mask to avoid taking in tiny insects.

      Apparently, some already try since quite some time now

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      • myrmidex@lemmy.nogods.be ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Amazing! :o

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