Comment on Happy anniversary of the day absolutely nothing happened at nowhere square!

• napkin2020@sh.itjust.works ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Don’t argue with tankies. Making fun of them is very much enough.

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• AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Yes, industrialisation is what lifts people from poverty, that’s exactly why the West has prevented the almost entirety of Africa, South America and Southeast Asia from industrializing, and the greatest industrial developments in the previous century (other than US-sponsored military bases like South Korea or Japan) have happened in, you guessed it, communist countries, whether we refer to the heavy industrialisation of USSR under state-planned economy or the industrialisation of China. Why didn’t Peru industrialise too? Why didn’t Philippines? Why didn’t Zambia? You’re talking of industrialisation of the West and imperialism as two isolated phenomena, when they’re very much not.

  Also are you going talk about Soviet invasion and genocide in eastern Europe

  You mean when the Soviets lost 27 million people in order to save Europe from Nazism? We can talk about that, yes

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  • gmtom@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I mean yeah capitalism and imperialism go hand in hand.

    But you’re willfully ignoring when “communist” countries do the same. Do you think the soviet oppression of eastern Europe is fundamentally different than the European oppression of Africa

    And no, I’m talking about ww2, I’m talk about Holodomor and the Great Chinese Famine. I’m sure you’ll try and find excuses for them like a capitalist would for the bengal or Irish famines.

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    • AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Do you think the soviet oppression of eastern Europe is fundamentally different than the European oppression of Africa

      If you don’t think they’re fundamentally different it means you’re not what you’re talking about. To this day, university students in Morocco and Algeria study in French, ask a Polish graduate from the 70s what language they used in university.

      Look at the material exports not just during the colonial era but today in countries like Burkina Faso, whose 70% of exports are precious metals and 80% of exports go to Switzerland, and compare that to the Soviet Union providing raw goods and fossil fuels at international market prices to countries in the COMECON and importing manufactured, high value-added goods therefore subjecting itself to the short end of the stick of unequal exchange and mercantilism, in an effort to subsidise the industrialisation of said countries.

      Look at educational outcomes, life expectancy, working rights in Communist Estonia and compare them to the Belgian Congo genocide or to Spanish invasion of Morocco and the status of moroccan citizens in occupied zones.

      The Soviet Union was forced to sacrifice 27 mullion human lives in the war against Nazism, and it successfully rid Eastern Europe of it, saving it from being a German colony subjected to genocide and extermination, slavery, de-industrialization and resource exploitation, and instead industrialised its entire area of influence, eliminated landlords and serfdom, instituted huge unions, and did this all without resorting to the exploitation of people in the Global South. Come on, find a 60 year-old person from the Baltics or from Eastern Europe and ask them about worker rights, healthcare, education, pensions or access to housing during communism. And now go to fucking Libya and ask the same to someone who endured Italian colonisation.

      You literally have no idea what you’re comparing.

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      • gmtom@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Oh yeah I’m sure the Polish people are so glad the soviets “saved them from Nazism” after they struck a deal with hitler and invaded their country together. And I’m sure they were even more greatful when the soviet soldiers rated their way through Poland on their way to Berlin.

        I’m sure the Ukrainians appreciate the Russians brutally suppressing their independence, forcing them to die en mass against the Nazis, often times not even being armed and sent to the front lines, then having their natural resources stripped, opressed and subject to genocide.

        And it’s frankly beyond telling you refuse to even acknowledge my points about Holodomor, because doing so would mean you either have to acknowledge the atrocities committed by the soviets, or go full nutjob conspiracy theorist on it to deny it happened or try and claim it wasn’t actually the soviets fault.

        And as for your points about standards of counties, you only have to look at Germany. Wasters Germany still feels the effects of soviet oppression to this day, it’s falls behind the west of thr country in almost every metric. Lookup the Brehznev doctrine that the soviets used to retroactively justify it’s invasion of Czechoslovakia and their policy of “Russofication” which to anyone with eyes is blatant cultural imperialism. There deportations of multiple ethnic groups to wastelands in the east of Russia in order to cleanse those areas and replace them with ethnic Russians while also getting a defacto slave work force.

        I fucking hate tankies so much.

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