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Comment on UK to build 12 nuclear submarines in preparation for potential war with Russia

cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

They’re not “getting their asses handed to them”, lots of the latest negotiations (with the US) seem to involve Russia gaining territory in any peace agreement. And they’re switching over to a fully wartime economy, so they’re in it for the long haul.

Don’t underestimate Russia’s ability to play the long game in a war. I know western media likes to give us stories like “Russia is running out of Russians” or whatever but that stuff is just propaganda imo. Ukraine, even with all the western weapons, is treading water.

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Squizzy@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The negotiations outlook is because the US capitulated to Russia, not because it is based in reality. They have already emptied villages, hospitals, schools and prisons to feed the frontline and have gained about 20% of a neighbouring landmass with wherein they had strong network of subterfuge for years previous. They do not have the capability to wage a war with the UK right now, unfortunately the UK dont have the capabikity to defend very well either.

Ukraine was handicapped by poor allies and is now handicapped by a handicap in the US. They are struggling no doubt, war isnt nice but so too are Russia. I personally think if the US election had gone in a different direction, to someone with a spine, the war would be ending and Russia in collapse.

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- cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Ukraine was handicapped by poor allies and is now handicapped by a handicap in the US. They are struggling no doubt, war isnt nice but so too are Russia. I personally think if the US election had gone in a different direction, to someone with a spine, the war would be ending and Russia in collapse.
  
  I agree with that, but that doesn’t change the fact that the US election went to Donald Trump, who has no interest in curbing Russia’s imperial ambitions.
  
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  - Squizzy@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Agreed, even though it goes against his own plans for China. The US will become less relevant, and one would hope the reaction to the markets would be to end the loyalism.
    
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    cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Let’s hope so. Europe’s reliance on the US for security has paved the way for this.
    
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echodot@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Oh God there are so many problems with your response where do I even start?

lots of the latest negotiations (with the US) seem to involve Russia gaining territory in any peace agreement.

That’s just Trump doing Trump things, it’s got no basis in reality. You cannot have a negotiation where one of the parties is not present. Anything agreed with Russia will not be enforced by the international community. This has already been condemned by pretty much everyone else in the western world so I don’t know why you brought it up.

they’re switching over to a fully wartime economy, so they’re in it for the long haul.

So? They are at war so obviously they are switching over to a wartime economy. That doesn’t indicate any intention to attack NATO.

Ukraine, even with all the western weapons, is treading water.

They are hardly getting given the latest stuff. Meanwhile Russia is Fielding Soviet era tanks. I think will be okay.

Just to demonstrate what I mean, the estimated military casualties for the Soviet Union in WW2 was around 8.6 million. And then they won.

Firstly that was 60 years ago and wasn’t under the auspices of Putin. Who is widely regarded as a nut case. Secondly they wouldn’t have won had it not been for the allied forces having already severely hammered the Nazis.

Throwing meat into the grinder is not a tactic, it’s just desperation.

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- cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  That’s just Trump doing Trump things, it’s got no basis in reality.
  
  Trump is the president of the most powerful country in the world, for the next 3 years. His team will be doing the negotiating, so he has a lot of power here.
  
  You cannot have a negotiation where one of the parties is not present.
  
  Tell that to Palestine, or literally any country in Africa. Negotiations between superpowers don’t take into account the needs of the proxy countries.
  
  Anything agreed with Russia will not be enforced by the international community.
  
  It doesn’t need to be enforced by the international community. If Trump hands the Donbas to Russia, the various other NATO members aren’t going to do shit.
  
  I don’t really want to get into the points about equipment because that’s well outside my wheelhouse, but I’ve heard all sorts of conflicting stuff about that.
  
  So? They are at war so obviously they are switching over to a wartime economy. That doesn’t indicate any intention to attack NATO.
  
  You don’t switch over to a wartime economy for a limited military operation. You do it because you think the war is going to last a long time, just like the UK seems to think in this article.
  
  Secondly they wouldn’t have won had it not been for the allied forces having already severely hammered the Nazis.
  
  I disagree, the Nazis had taken the whole of Western Europe by that point, then the Battle of Stalingrad meant that they had to divert a load of forces from the West, making a push from the West possible.
  
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  - echodot@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Please stop okay it’s dunning-kruger at its finest.
    
    Any agreement of a ceasefire has to be ratified by NATO if it isn’t ratified by NATO then it doesn’t happen. So Trump and Putin can have their little play acting session but it’s not going to result in anything because no one will ratify it if Ukraine isn’t part of the negotiations. America it’d been big is irrelevant.
    
    What’s America going to do to enforce their version of the ceasefire, if Ukraine disagrees with it if the rest of NATO disagree with it? NATO will continue to supply Ukraine with weapons, and Ukraine will continue to use those weapons. And Trump will do what?
    
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    cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Please stop okay it’s dunning-kruger at its finest.
    
    Says the person who just confidently stated that the Nazis were losing in Western Europe before the Soviet counteroffensive.
    
    What’s America going to do to enforce their version of the ceasefire, if Ukraine disagrees with it if the rest of NATO disagree with it? NATO will continue to supply Ukraine with weapons, and Ukraine will continue to use those weapons. And Trump will do what?
    
    To state the obvious, the US has an outsized influence in NATO. Yes, there’s a legal mechanism where other NATO countries could continue sending weapons to Ukraine after a US-brokered ceasefire. But in practice this will never happen. I challenge you to name one time that all the non-US NATO members voted in favour of a war that the US was against.
    
    America been big is irrelevant.
    
    A superpower being big is never irrelevant. That’s why history is shaped by their actions.
    
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ivorybean28@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

even with all the western weapons,

All is a very big stretch. They have been fighting with ours and others leftovers.

Modern fully equipped trained NATO force using combined arms and manover warfare would annihilate any Russian setup.

1980s missiles with a understrength Ukraine force and static defenses will take a beating from lots of Russian arty and bombs. But still they have not given in!

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- cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’ll have to trust you on that, I don’t know anything about weapons systems.
  
  What I do know is that Russia has never lost a war due to lack of manpower.
  
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