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entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

• DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Can you name any society in which the population is not ruled by some form of feudal lord? In the sense that the population is not ruled, but works together for a good life.

  I am not aware of any such society.

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  • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    You do not know what feudalism is. What you described is hierarchy, not feudalism.

    I’ll get downvoted to hell probably, but hierarchy is inherent to humans and to primates in general. Even if on paper we create a truly egalitarian society, there will always be people that by virtue of being more skilled or charismatic will always have more influence in society. It doesn’t mean that they “rule” necessarily but more like people will put trust in them to make decisions when everyone else can’t get on the same page on etc.

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    • DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Here is a definition a Feudalism. Pls tell me how anything meaningful has changed beyond the obvious things.

      Feudalism is a social, economic, and political system that dominated medieval Europe, roughly from the 9th to the 15th centuries. In this system:

      • Land ownership was the basis of power. Kings or lords owned large estates and granted portions of their land to vassals (nobles, knights) in exchange for loyalty, military service, and other support.
      • Vassals managed these lands and had control over the peasants (serfs) who worked them. The peasants, in return for protection and the right to work a portion of land for their own needs, owed labor, goods, or services to their lords.
      • Obligations and relationships were personal and hierarchical, based on mutual duties rather than state laws or centralized authorities.

      Maybe the last point but not really - look at the US.

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      • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        1. Many very rich people own hardly any land. Many very powerful people own hardly any land. Many comparatively poor people may own many acres of land. You could move the goal post and say it’s ownership of corporations but then at that point it’s clearly not feudalism.

        2. Yu do not work in exchange for your boss for protection unless you consider the democratically elected government a feudal lord, in which case again, number 1 doesn’t apply and therefore the system isn’t feudalism. Furthermore you have the option to get another job, move out, save and start a business etc.

        3. You can see how that’s not the case anymore were even marriage is a legal contract.

        So yeah, no we do not live under feudalism and you need to maybe touch grass. Feudalism was much worse than what we have now, like it’s not even close.

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  • JayleneSlide@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Edit: A society that has not long since been wiped out because it stood in the way of greed.

    That’s seriously moving the goalposts of your original statement.

    The Salish Tribes lived in the Pacific NW for ~13500 years, which is a pretty long run. They were quite egalitarian, flatly organized, and lived in balance with the ecosystem. There are other long-lived Native American groups to also consider, such as the Iroquois. See: “The Good Rain” by Timothy Egan, “Braiding Sweetgrass” by Robin Wall Kimmerer. That last book suggestion is a bit more tangential, but the point comes across.

    Looking at this with a broader lens, 99.9999+% of all species ever have gone extinct. If you look at societies as a type of species, yeah… the less bellicose, less extractive species will get wiped out by the more avaricious until the ecosystem falls too far out of balance to sustain that behavior.

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    • entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      100%. It’s absurdly bad faith argumentation, to the point of redefining words.

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    • DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      It is not. My statement was that humanity never overcame Feudalism.

      You made it there maybe was some time when.

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      • entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        What’s your definition of “overcame”, then? Do you believe that anything short of an absolutely permanent solution is failing to overcome?

        At what timescale exactly does it become overcome? If it comes back after being wiped out for 10,000 years, did we “fail to overcome” it? Or did it just come back?

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  • haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    You could check out the zapatista and rojava.

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