Comment on Call to defederate from feddit.org over zionism
PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 1 day agoIf you oppose armed resistance against genocide you are pro genocide. It is that simple
It’s not quite that simple. Hamas is a deeply corrupt and counterproductive organization. Israel arranges funding for them and supports them against their political opposition, because having Hamas largely in charge of Palestine is often a disaster for the Palestinians, which Israel enjoys.
You can absolutely oppose Israel’s genocide and also oppose Hamas’s horrifying fig-leaf of “resistance” to that genocide which is mostly useless militarily, and just provides useful pretexts for Israel to do more genocide (not that they need them.)
Else you can pretend to be pro Palestinian by supporting the PA which is nothing more than an extension of Israel oppressing Palestinians.
This is where your argument goes from incomplete to bizarre. Why do you say the PA which Israel dislikes is an extension of Israel, while Hamas which Israel likes and supports (in between military operations) is an authentic resistance organization?
Turbonics@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Israel props up Hamas because it knows it can get away with the terrorist framing to justify it’s escalation of ethnic cleansing and apartheid to western powers. Israel regularly assassinates and imprisons more moderate leadership so that fundamentalist groups gain more prominence. This is the way Israel likes to justifies it’s blockade, mowing the lawn, and divide Gaza/West Bank. If you think Hamas is being played by Israel, sure. But it’s not like they have any option other than armed resistance. I can critisize their methods all I want, but at the end of the day, I’m not the one living in Gaza, I have no clue what it’s really like living in those hellish conditions, I don’t really know what I’d be willing to do to try to break free from the Zionist entity that has routinely bombed, imprisoned, tortured loved ones for generations in the largest open air prison on earth.
Hamas is a genuine resistance against Zionism, to say it’s a fig-leaf of resistance implies that it is not a genuine opposition but just a front. There is plenty to criticize, but they are a genuine opposition. They have already agreed to give up governance, as long as a unified Palestinian leadership can take place (they’ve advocated for this as part of the peace deal since Oct 8th) and Hamas changes to a regular army under that leadership.
The PA is a fig-leaf of resistance because they directly work under Israel to violently suppress resistance against the settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank. The PA is Counter Insurgency (COIN) wielded by Israel to prolong the Apartheid and continue to delay any semblance of statehood. The PA is viewed by Palestinians nearly just as negatively as Israel because of that. They assist Israel’s expansion and crack down on resistance. It’s another arm of Israel’s Apartheid apparatus
PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 23 hours ago
Absolutely agree with all of this.
Yeah. I get this… I’m not trying to sit in judgement of anyone in that situation. Maybe I overstepped my bounds in saying some of these things, that’s fair. I’m just saying that “trying to break free” in a way which basically just plays into Israel’s hands and gives them the pretext they were looking for to eliminate Gaza once and for all is not resistance, even if it feels like it is at the time.
What the Palestinians actually need is from someone from outside, from one of these powers that has more money, weapons, and size than Israel by 100 times over or more, to step in. And no one is, while they die like leaves in Autumn.
Yeah, pretty much. What I’m saying is that Israel overpowers them both by so overwhelmingly much that neither of them is “permitted” to accomplish anything at all. Hamas is permitted to splinter the Palestinians politically, and to commit terrorism from time to time, not nearly enough to be a threat but enough to keep a lot of people (certainly a lot of Israelis) hating the Palestinians and providing a good pretext.
The PA I know less about, but if they are fully corrupted and complicit in Israel’s oppression that would make sense to me.
You’re not wrong about the Palestinians having no options at all. I don’t even know what they are supposed to do.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Adi Callai does a great job explaining the PA and counter insurgency here in his video about The Gaza Ghetto Uprising, but the entire video and many others on his channel are well worth the watch