Comment on Call to defederate from feddit.org over zionism

• ewo@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Hamas =/= Palestine, Like Zionist facists =/= Israel. They have killed innocent people just like the IDF has.

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• small44@sopuli.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Israel don’t like hamas there is a misconception about israel/hamas relation. Israel never financed hamas, it only allowed Qatar to transfer found to them when they was still a charity organization.

  I should remind you that israel have the real control on whole palestine. Israel collects significant tax and customs revenues on behalf of the PA under the Paris Protocol and has the power to withhold, delay, or deduct these funds, often as a political tool or in response to PA policies.

  How many idf terrorists was killed by hamas versus the PA. PA is constantly collaborating for israel security while israel is arming setlers and protect them when they attack west bankers. Weirdly you still think hamas is the fake resistance and PA is the true resistance. You are so weird

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  • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Israel don’t like hamas there is a misconception about israel/hamas relation.

    They literally have talked openly about it.

    In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that “In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas.”

    At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”[36][37]

    “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”[40]

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas#U…

    The idea that they were ever a “charity organization” is pure fantasy. The destruction of Israel is in the charter. Literally everyone else in these comments is aware that they are focused around armed resistance to an occupation. That is literally their reason for being.

    Weirdly you still think hamas is the fake resistance and PA is the true resistance.

    When I am king, the one and only rule on Lemmy will be that anyone who tells their opponent what it is their opponent believes, when neither their opponent or even anyone else said the thing they’re saying, will not just be banned. Someone will go to their house and kick them, and tell them sternly, “No!”

    I actually feel duped that I took your comment seriously enough to dig up citations for why it was wrong. Reading the end, it’s clear to me that you’re either just trying to provoke conflict for reasons of your own, or else you’re more or less just sitting down at your computer to go BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBL onto Lemmy thinking that it is productive input.

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    • small44@sopuli.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ll ask you again how many idf terrorists was killed by Hamas and how many was killed by the PA and do you deny that PA are collaborating with Israel and do nothing against illegal settlers

      aljazeera.com/…/the-pa-crackdown-on-palestinians-…

      Israel love hamas so much according to you that they killed all it’s top leaders

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      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’ll ask you again how many idf terrorists was killed by Hamas and how many was killed by the PA and do you deny that PA are collaborating with Israel and do nothing against illegal settlers

        I said literally nothing at all about the PA. My point was that Hamas is corrupt, violent, and counterproductive, which is why the government of Israel supports them. Them periodically killing civilians or IDF people is extremely useful for Likud, which is why Likud likes them. Nothing Palestinian is strong enough to present any genuine threat of any kind of resistance. If Hamas or the PA could present anything like a real threat to Israel as a whole, the leaders would react differently, but different trivial numbers of Israelis killed by one or the other has absolutely no bearing on anything I’m saying.

        You seem like you are persistently claiming I am saying one thing, and arguing very vigorously against that thing. Like I or someone here is trying to compare the PA to Hamas. I thought it was weird that you held up the PA as the “fake” resistance or seemed to be missing the point so thoroughly, but I think the only thing I ever even said about them was asking you some questions about your own point of view.

        Israel love hamas so much according to you that they killed all it’s top leaders

        Because it barely matters anymore. They are just killing everyone in Gaza.

        For a time, they needed to delegitimize Palestine on the world stage, and Hamas was violent enough and not-PA enough to serve that purpose.

        Now, what they need to do is pretend that their “war” is against Hamas and not against a totally defenseless wreckage of starving women and children, and so holding up some dead Hamas people is useful for them.

        It’s different behavior for different situations. This is not some kind of PhD argument I am making here, that needs a deep understanding in order to grasp it. I honestly have no idea why you are so amped up about this or not listening to anything I am saying, and determined to “win” the exchange instead. I hope you grow out of it, and learn to blossom into the beautiful butterfly of online discoursing that you always knew you could be.

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• small44@sopuli.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  We shouldn’t support hamas blindly. We condemn them when they attack civilians and support them when they attack the idf

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  • Turbonics@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There is a very gray line between an IDF soldier and a “civilian” because they are all soldiers. Colonialism inherently needs its “civilians” to be soldiers, because if they would not be there would be a severe shortage in manpower to surpress the natives.

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    • small44@sopuli.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      But under international law they nees to be active soldiera ro be legitimate targets

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      • Turbonics@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        International what?

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• PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If you oppose armed resistance against genocide you are pro genocide. It is that simple

  It’s not quite that simple. Hamas is a deeply corrupt and counterproductive organization. Israel arranges funding for them and supports them against their political opposition, because having Hamas largely in charge of Palestine is often a disaster for the Palestinians, which Israel enjoys.

  You can absolutely oppose Israel’s genocide and also oppose Hamas’s horrifying fig-leaf of “resistance” to that genocide which is mostly useless militarily, and just provides useful pretexts for Israel to do more genocide (not that they need them.)

  Else you can pretend to be pro Palestinian by supporting the PA which is nothing more than an extension of Israel oppressing Palestinians.

  This is where your argument goes from incomplete to bizarre. Why do you say the PA which Israel dislikes is an extension of Israel, while Hamas which Israel likes and supports (in between military operations) is an authentic resistance organization?

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  • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Israel props up Hamas because it knows it can get away with the terrorist framing to justify it’s escalation of ethnic cleansing and apartheid to western powers. Israel regularly assassinates and imprisons more moderate leadership so that fundamentalist groups gain more prominence. This is the way Israel likes to justifies it’s blockade, mowing the lawn, and divide Gaza/West Bank. If you think Hamas is being played by Israel, sure. But it’s not like they have any option other than armed resistance. I can critisize their methods all I want, but at the end of the day, I’m not the one living in Gaza, I have no clue what it’s really like living in those hellish conditions, I don’t really know what I’d be willing to do to try to break free from the Zionist entity that has routinely bombed, imprisoned, tortured loved ones for generations in the largest open air prison on earth.

    Hamas is a genuine resistance against Zionism, to say it’s a fig-leaf of resistance implies that it is not a genuine opposition but just a front. There is plenty to criticize, but they are a genuine opposition. They have already agreed to give up governance, as long as a unified Palestinian leadership can take place (they’ve advocated for this as part of the peace deal since Oct 8th) and Hamas changes to a regular army under that leadership.

    The PA is a fig-leaf of resistance because they directly work under Israel to violently suppress resistance against the settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank. The PA is Counter Insurgency (COIN) wielded by Israel to prolong the Apartheid and continue to delay any semblance of statehood. The PA is viewed by Palestinians nearly just as negatively as Israel because of that. They assist Israel’s expansion and crack down on resistance. It’s another arm of Israel’s Apartheid apparatus

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    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Israel props up Hamas because it knows it can get away with the terrorist framing to justify it’s escalation of ethnic cleansing and apartheid to western powers. Israel regularly assassinates and imprisons more moderate leadership so that fundamentalist groups gain more prominence. This is the way Israel likes to justifies it’s blockade, mowing the lawn, and divide Gaza/West Bank. If you think Hamas is being played by Israel, sure.

      Absolutely agree with all of this.

      But it’s not like they have any option other than armed resistance. I can critisize their methods all I want, but at the end of the day, I’m not the one living in Gaza, I have no clue what it’s really like living in those hellish conditions, I don’t really know what I’d be willing to do to try to break free from the Zionist entity that has routinely bombed, imprisoned, tortured loved ones for generations in the largest open air prison on earth.

      Yeah. I get this… I’m not trying to sit in judgement of anyone in that situation. Maybe I overstepped my bounds in saying some of these things, that’s fair. I’m just saying that “trying to break free” in a way which basically just plays into Israel’s hands and gives them the pretext they were looking for to eliminate Gaza once and for all is not resistance, even if it feels like it is at the time.

      What the Palestinians actually need is from someone from outside, from one of these powers that has more money, weapons, and size than Israel by 100 times over or more, to step in. And no one is, while they die like leaves in Autumn.

      The PA is a fig-leaf of resistance because they directly work under Israel to violently suppress resistance against the settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank. The PA is Counter Insurgency (COIN) wielded by Israel to prolong the Apartheid and continue to delay any semblance of statehood. The PA is viewed by Palestinians nearly just as negatively as Israel because of that. They assist Israel’s expansion and crack down on resistance. It’s another arm of Israel’s Apartheid apparatus

      Yeah, pretty much. What I’m saying is that Israel overpowers them both by so overwhelmingly much that neither of them is “permitted” to accomplish anything at all. Hamas is permitted to splinter the Palestinians politically, and to commit terrorism from time to time, not nearly enough to be a threat but enough to keep a lot of people (certainly a lot of Israelis) hating the Palestinians and providing a good pretext.

      The PA I know less about, but if they are fully corrupted and complicit in Israel’s oppression that would make sense to me.

      You’re not wrong about the Palestinians having no options at all. I don’t even know what they are supposed to do.

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      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Adi Callai does a great job explaining the PA and counter insurgency here in his video about The Gaza Ghetto Uprising, but the entire video and many others on his channel are well worth the watch

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  • Turbonics@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hamas said to turn down $2B offer to disarm, relocate top commanders from Gaza

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