Comment on Chips aren’t improving like they used to, and it’s killing game console price cuts
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 hours agoBasically this is true, yes, without going into an exhaustive level of detail as to very, very specific subtypes of different RAM and mobo layouts.
Shared memory setups generally are less powerful, but, they also usually end up being overall cheaper, as well as having a lower power draw… and being cooler, temperature wise.
Which are all legitimate reasons those kinds of setups are used in smaller form factor ‘computing devices’, because heat managment, airflow requirements… basically rule out using a traditional architecture.
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Though, recently, MiniPCs are starting to take off… and I am actually considering doing a build based on the Minisforum BD795i SE… which could be quite a powerful workstation/gaming rig.
Aside about interesting non standard 'desktop' potential build
This is a Mobo with a high end integrated AMD mobile CPU (7945hx)… that all together, costs about $430. And the CPU in this thing… has a PassMark score… of about the same as an AMD 9900X… which itself, the CPU alone, MSRPs for about $400. So that is kind of bonkers, get a high end Mobo and CPU… for the price of a high end CPU. Oh, I forgot to mention: This BD795iSE board? Yeah it just has a standard PCI 16 slot. So… you can plug in any 2 slot width standard desktop GPU into it… and all of this either literally is, or basically is the ITX form factor. So, you could make a whole build out of this that would be ITX form factor, and also absurdly powerful, or a budget version with a dinky GPU. I was talking in another thread a few days ago, snd somekne said PC architecture may be headed toward… basically you have the entire PC, and the GPU, and thats the new paradigm, instead of the old school view of: you have a mobo, and you pick it based on its capability to support future cpus in the same socket type, future ram upgrades, etc… And this intrigued me, I looked into it, and yeah, this concept does have cost per performance merit at this point. So this uses a split between the GPU having its GDDR RAM and the… CPU using DDDR SODIMM (laptop form factor) RAM. But its also designed such that you can actually fit huge standard PC style cooling fans… into quite a compact form factor. From what I can vaguely tell as a non Chinese speaker… it seems like there are many more people over in China who have been making high end, custom, desktop gaming rigs out of this laptop/mobile style architecture for a decent while now, and only recently has this concept even really entered into the English speaking world/market, that you can actually build your own rig this way.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 hours ago
Fascinating discourse here. Love it.
What about a Framework laptop motherboard in a mini PC case? Do they ship with AMD APUs equivalent to that?
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 48 minutes ago
Hrm uh… Framework laptops… seem to be configurable as having a mobile grade CPU with integrated graphics… and also an optional, additional mobile grade, dedicated GPU.
So, not really an APU… unless you really want to haggle over definitions and say ‘technically, a CPU with pathetic integrated graphics still counts as a GPU and is thus an APU’.
Framework laptop boards don’t have the PCI-E 16x slot for a traditional desktop GPU. As far as I am aware, Minisforum are the only people that do that, along with a high powered mobile CPU.
Note that the Minisforum Mobo model I am talking about, the AMD chip is not really an APU, its also a CPU with integrated graphics. Its a Radeon 610M, basically the bare minimum to be able to render and output very basic 2d graphics.
True APUs are … things like what more modern consoles use, what a steam deck uses. They are still usually custom specs, proprietary to their vendor.
The Switch 2 will have a custom Nvidia APU, which is the first Nvidia APU of note to my knowledge, and it will be very interesting to learn more about it from teardowns and benchmarks.
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Currently, the most powerful, non custom, generally publically available, compatible with standard PC mobos… arguably an APU, arguably not… is the AMD 8700G.
Its about $315 bucks, is a pretty decent CPU, but as a GPU… its less powerful than a standard desktop RX 6500 from AMD… which is the absolute lowest tier AMD GPU from now two generations back from current.
You… might be able to run … basically games older than 5ish years, at 1080p, medium graphics, at 60fps. I guess it would maybe be a decent option if you… wanted to build a console emulator machine, roughly for consoles … N64/PS1/Dreamcast, and older, as well as being able to play older PC games, or PC games at lower settings/no more than 1080p.
I am totally just spitballing with that though, trying to figure out all that exactly would be quite complicated.
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But now, back to Framework.
Framework is soon to be releasing the Framework Desktop.
This is a small form factor PC… which uses an actual proper APU, either the AMD AI Max 385 or 395.
Its listed as MSRP of $1100, they say it can run Cyberpunk at 1440p on high settings at about 75 fps… thats with no ray tracing, no framegen… and I think also no frame upscaling being used.
So, presumably, if you turned on upscaling and framegen, you’d be able to get similar fps at ultra and psycho settings, and/or some amount of raytracing.
There are also other companies that offer this kind of true APU, MiniPC style architecture, such as EvoTek, though it seems like most of them are considerably more expensive.
wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-ai-max-395-strix-halo-mini…
… And finally, looks like Minisforum is sticking with the laptop CPU + desktop GPU design, and is soon going to be offering even more powerful CPU+Mobo models.
wccftech.com/minisforum-ryzen-9-9955hx-x870m-motd…
So yeah, this is actually quite an interesting time of diversification away from … what have basically been standard desktop mobo architectures… for … 2, 3? decades…
…shame it all also coincides with Trump throwing a literally historically unprecedented senilic temper tantrum, and fucking up prices and logistics for… basically the whole world, though of course much, much more seriously for the US.