Comment on Netanyahu Promises the “Final Stage” of Gaza Genocide Will Lead to Implementation of “Trump’s Plan"
WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 3 weeks agoI’m a lib but I want to have a dialogue that’s less shit throwing and more genuine.
Just because someone is against Harris/the Democrats does not automatically mean they are in support of Trump/the Republicans.
Agreed.
This might come as a surprise to you, but we hate Trump and the GOP, too.
Not a surprise, totally know that and appreciate you guys for it.
We’re just not under any illusions that the Democrats are going to fix anything.
So neither am I, but I feel frustrated because we need to be protesting and making noise on this issue.
Its frustrating because our shared goal is to end the genocide, but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before.
If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think “which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost” voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.
It’s only when you bring your own ego into it “well I will never support genocide” that comes across like you’re willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous.
Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems
But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we’ve now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.
This simply would not have happened under Kamala.
Rom@hexbear.net 3 weeks ago
Democrats lost all on their own. A bunch of fringe internet shitposters do not have anywhere near enough power to sway an election lol.
The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn’t forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons.
Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because, again, the Democrats don’t give a fuck about Gazan lives.
Please look in a mirror.
No amount of pressure is going to change the Dem’s minds. They do not give a fuck about you and never have.
Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck.
It was already happening under Biden.
WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Yes they did, and they’re to blame for terrible messaging and gatekeeping democracy to force Kamala as the candidate without voter input.
OP threw out tankie as a bad faith term and we just kept using it
I assume when we say ‘tankies’ we’re using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don’t support genocide?
Those are the people I’m talking about, not terminally online people.
Yes. Joe was sending weapons to aid the genocide. That’s terrible and no excuse.
In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.
Trump’s policy is “let them bomb” and deporting people who disagree.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Okay, that’s a genuine argument if true.
I just am shocked you’d say that. I already demonstrated that Democrats care at least slightly more than Trump. Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?
I have, but I agree I should continue doing so going forward.
It is important to think hard on our values and that goes both ways.
I’m in Canada so I don’t have much I can do about US politics unfortunately unless you have some suggestions.
Our government put an arms embargo on Israel so we aren’t supposed to be funding them but as of 3 days ago apparently that promise is broken so going forward that’s an open question.
I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.
If your point is that I could do more, you’re certainly right. I’ll think on that.
Yeah, they threw the election seemingly on purpose because transitionary president Biden who we already voted in as the lesser of two evils just to stop Trump’s second term decided he would take up space and prevent new candidates from stepping forward.
I’m not content to ignore it, it wasn’t happening.
Show me 3 examples of university students having their green card revoked for attending a protest under Bidens administration and I will apologize.
Rom@hexbear.net 3 weeks ago
Why can Democrats only offer candy bars for dinner when we need fresh fruits, vegetables, and actually healthy foods? Not to belabor the analogy, but the Democrats either don’t know what the right things to do are, or they do know but they don’t care. Do either of those options sound like a party that anyone should vote for?
‘Tankies’ doesn’t mean anything, it’s a vibes word for “someone to the left of me I don’t like.” And most of the people who didn’t vote in 2024 aren’t leftist, because the American populace just isn’t.
I did not vote Democrat in 2024 because the Democrats are not entitled to my vote by pretending to be less awful than the other team. I did not vote Democrat anywhere on the ticket because I refuse to be complicit in genocide. That is the hard moral line I am taking. There is no excuse for genocide.
Note that at no point did he stop sending weapons, the one action he could have taken at any time to actually stop the extermination. He did not want the genocide to stop.
And the dock was a joke that was never going to accomplish anything.
Evidently Biden’s policy was also “let them bomb,” as shown by the at least 14,000 tons of bombs he sent Netanyahu. And Biden deported more people than Trump 1.
I don’t need a source to know that if he wanted to deescalate he could have just stopped sending them weapons at any time.
We “caused it”? We “allowed Trump to win”? Who do you think your audience is? Nobody here voted for Trump. Unless you’re equating “not voting for Harris” with “voting for Trump” which is just baby-brained nonsense. The only thing that’s a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.
Legitimately way more useful than voting.
No
WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Corporate interests in politics. You and me donating to our favored candidates is nothing compared to the big money and lobbyists mega corporations are throwing around.
Democrats can’t offer fresh fruit because the chocolate lobby won’t let them.
It’s not any one party’s fault. It’s a systemic issue. People who don’t actually represent voters are being given disproportionately amount of money to run campaigns because they represent businesses.
That being said I don’t know if we should be looking at party as a whole but also who the candidates are.
If we pushed more progressive candidates like AOC who do call out Israel and show up to primaries we can steer the party to a more reasonable direction while realizing the 2 party system is broken and needs fixing.
I dont see how disengaging entirely from electoralism helps.
You got to keep your “moral line” but if it was at the cost of worse material conditions in Gaza and means Gazans got more bombs and their aid and rights watch groups defunded then I’m not sure I agree that was worth it.
Your suggestion that the material conditions of Gaza under Kamala would have been equally bad doesn’t feel very convincing.
And that’s not even mentioning the genocide in Ukraine. Biden was at least on the right side of that, Trump is certainly not.
I only brought that up because it seemed at that time you were trying to accuse me of not doing enough by asking how many protests I go to.
I’m saying that if you chose not to vote against fascism, it’s unfair to blame the people who did for not protesting now that it’s way more dangerous and they might be abducted, tortured and deported for doing so.
Had Kamala won there would be much less fear of protesting against her government.
You guys didn’t cause it per se, but you still can’t seem to agree that a fascist is worse than a neoliberal and I just don’t get what’s not obvious about that.
There ya go. Then I will continue to insist that the abduction and systematic targeting of students and academics on grounds of “wokeness” wasn’t happening under Biden.