Comment on Servo vs Ladybird.

• CitricBase@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Follow the link. He denied a pull request for gender neutral language in documentation, calling it “personal politics.” github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814#issuecom…

  In other words, Andreas insists the OS developer be referred to as “he/him” instead of not assuming gender. Not only that, he’s doubling down. It’s textbook misogyny. Fuck him.

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  • mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    “Personal politics” is a vague phrase that generally just means someone’s views and priorities. There is nothing pejorative about it, nor in the way he used it.

    In other words, Andreas insists the OS developer be referred to as “he/him” instead of not assuming gender.

    The build instructions in question follow English language conventions that have existed for hundreds of years (and are shared by more than few other languages). All he did was decline someone’s proposed change that would have applied a very new convention regarding pronouns for a hypothetical person. This is not the same as insisting that anyone refer to anyone else in a particular way.

    It’s also not unreasonable. We can ask people to adopt new conventions, but we don’t get to expect or demand it.

    Change to a language takes time.

    It’s textbook misogyny.

    No, it is not.

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    • RandomVideos@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      a very new convention regarding pronouns

      Singular they is old. It may be newer than the gender neutral he, but its not new

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      • mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Certain forms of singular they are old, but the drive to use it as a general convention is new.

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    • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      pronouns are really nothing new. he/him has meant a male person for hundreds of years, didn’t it?

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      • mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        And for a hypothetical person, whose gender is unknowable.

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    • CitricBase@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s textbook misogyny.

      No, it is not.

      Yes, it is.

      It’s sexist when you assume someone is a man because they’re a doctor. It’s sexist when you assume someone is a woman because they’re a nurse. And it’s sexist when you assume someone is a man because they’re an OS developer.

      When you continue insisting that the OS developer be a man, even though it’s been clarified to you that they just as well may not be, that’s when your behavior crosses the line to misogynistic.

      It isn’t a fucking “convention” to push women down by insinuating they’re not welcome in your profession, and it’s not a “new convention” to fucking avoid doing that.

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      • mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        None of what you claim was done in the document being discussed.

        It isn’t a fucking “convention” to push women down

        No, but choosing either the male or female pronoun when writing about a hypothetical person has been the convention for a long time, and using the male one has been the usual default for far longer than any of us has been alive. It’s not to push women down; it’s a grammar compromise, and is not exclusive English.

        You are misunderstanding the language as it was used, and you have jumped to a false conclusion that seems to make you so angry that you think it’s okay to publicly vilify someone… for your own mistake.

        I hope things get better for you.

        Good day.

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• bjorney@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814#issuecom…

  Really?

  This screams “women not wanted” to me

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Really?

    A better fix would be to remove the pronoun entirely.

    To prevent this, remove anon from the wheel group and the user will no longer be able to run /bin/su.

    But honestly, it doesn’t matter at all.

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    • bjorney@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes, I’m sure that PR would have been accepted instead /s

      But you’re right, it doesn’t matter at all, the reasonable thing to do would have been for the guy to spend 3 seconds clicking the accept and merge button, or 6 seconds making your change. instead he wrote a comment stating that inclusive language has no place in his project

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Here are the issues I see:

        1. That’s his only PR in this repo, and it just changed one word that wasn’t incorrect for one that’s preferable to the author
        2. The documentation in question is talking about an OS user, not a user of the software, so gender doesn’t apply (“it” would be totally appropriate)
        3. If goes against established norms here, it would be like changing a pronoun for a ship from “she” to “they”

        My suggestion sidesteps the issue entirely by avoiding pronouns, which doesn’t violate norms at all here.

        He didn’t say anything about inclusive language not being welcome, he said politically motivated changes aren’t welcome. If there’s documentation referencing users of telhe software, I’m guessing a change using inclusive language would be treated very differently.

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  • Tea@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I really can’t figure out if you are trolling or not.

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    • ernest314@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      nah. it may not be a huge deal (esp. if you’re male) and “screaming” might be exaggerating it, but “keep personal politics out of code” is classic “I consider your existence political”.

      I’m happy to see if the guy’s politics has changed in the years since this happened, and I don’t know if their involvement in the project is worthy of a boycott, but those are personal choices (and the relevant comment was even helpfully linked).

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