Annoying that you’re being downvoted, you are absolutely correct. We should not support Ladybird as long as Andreas is involved.
Comment on Servo vs Ladybird.
ptmb@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
Unfortunately, the lead developer of Ladybird, Andreas Kling, has engaged in transphobia and enforced misogynistic language in the project’s documentation, see toot.cat/@EveHasWords/114081930465217200
CitricBase@lemmy.world 1 month ago
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Do what you want, but IMO that’s a really lame reason to hate on a software project. Evaluate the software on its merits, not the merits of random people associated with it.
CitricBase@lemmy.world 1 month ago
When you donate to a software project, you’re not giving money to some inanimate concept. You’re giving it to the developers, the “random people associated with it.”
Kling’s actions are harmful, and contribute to an open source environment less welcoming to ~4 billion people. I don’t want to reward that. Unless you do, you would be better off putting your support elsewhere, too.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
I reject the premise here. If you’re going to subject contributors to a purity test, we’ll just get fewer contributors.
I haven’t yet seen anything Kling did that made the project less welcoming. The only evidence I’ve seen provided here is a rejected PR that changed a system user’s pronouns (i.e. something nobody would actually use directly) to gender neutral pronouns. The correct solution here isn’t to make the pronouns gender-neutral, but to elide them altogether, because a system user cannot have a gender because it’s just a technical concept. It’s not talking about the human user, but a random system user, like
rootornobody. The pronoun doesn’t matter, so the only rational motivation here for the change is virtue signaling (system users can be women, trans, etc too!), and that’s just political crap nobody wants.I’d agree with you if it was referring to the user of the software. But it’s not. No gender makes sense here, so one gender over another is irrelevant. The better change is to remove the pronoun entirely because it literally doesn’t make sense as a concept here.
Katherine1@midwest.social 1 month ago
I haven’t been keeping much of an eye on Ladybird, what happened with Andreas?
mox@lemmy.sdf.org 1 month ago
I followed the links to see what he actually wrote. There’s nothing transphobic or misogynistic about it.
If you are referring to some other incident, then please link it so we can see for ourselves.
bjorney@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814#issuecom…
Really?
This screams “women not wanted” to me
Tea@programming.dev 1 month ago
I really can’t figure out if you are trolling or not.
ernest314@lemm.ee 1 month ago
nah. it may not be a huge deal (esp. if you’re male) and “screaming” might be exaggerating it, but “keep personal politics out of code” is classic “I consider your existence political”.
I’m happy to see if the guy’s politics has changed in the years since this happened, and I don’t know if their involvement in the project is worthy of a boycott, but those are personal choices (and the relevant comment was even helpfully linked).
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Really?
A better fix would be to remove the pronoun entirely.
But honestly, it doesn’t matter at all.
bjorney@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
Yes, I’m sure that PR would have been accepted instead /s
But you’re right, it doesn’t matter at all, the reasonable thing to do would have been for the guy to spend 3 seconds clicking the accept and merge button, or 6 seconds making your change. instead he wrote a comment stating that inclusive language has no place in his project
CitricBase@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Follow the link. He denied a pull request for gender neutral language in documentation, calling it “personal politics.” github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814#issuecom…
In other words, Andreas insists the OS developer be referred to as “he/him” instead of not assuming gender. Not only that, he’s doubling down. It’s textbook misogyny. Fuck him.
mox@lemmy.sdf.org 1 month ago
“Personal politics” is a vague phrase that generally just means someone’s views and priorities. There is nothing pejorative about it, nor in the way he used it.
The build instructions in question follow English language conventions that have existed for hundreds of years (and are shared by more than few other languages). All he did was decline someone’s proposed change that would have applied a very new convention regarding pronouns for a hypothetical person. This is not the same as insisting that anyone refer to anyone else in a particular way.
It’s also not unreasonable. We can ask people to adopt new conventions, but we don’t get to expect or demand it.
Change to a language takes time.
No, it is not.
CitricBase@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Yes, it is.
It’s sexist when you assume someone is a man because they’re a doctor. It’s sexist when you assume someone is a woman because they’re a nurse. And it’s sexist when you assume someone is a man because they’re an OS developer.
When you continue insisting that the OS developer be a man, even though it’s been clarified to you that they just as well may not be, that’s when your behavior crosses the line to misogynistic.
It isn’t a fucking “convention” to push women down by insinuating they’re not welcome in your profession, and it’s not a “new convention” to fucking avoid doing that.
RandomVideos@programming.dev 1 month ago
Singular they is old. It may be newer than the gender neutral he, but its not new
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
pronouns are really nothing new. he/him has meant a male person for hundreds of years, didn’t it?