“and never will” this should imply something that cant be changed. Such empty words should no longer be even considered no matter who says them, unless its paired with enforceable punishment for breaking the word
Comment on Why's everyone freaking out about Firefox Terms of Service? Isn't it Open Source?
Deestan@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’m a software developer, and understand the technicalities and options available to me. I am capable of forking Firefox and make myself a custom build with anything I don’t like stripped out. (Capable of, not wanting to.)
They removed “We don’t sell your data and we never will” from their FAQ and they added “We may sell your data” to the ToS.
I am unhappy about this change. It is a clear sign that the people in charge of Firefox want to sell user data, and that the irrecoverable enshittification path has been chosen. It means that at some point in the next few years, I can’t trust Firefox’ with my privacy. And they sure as fuck don’t have anything else going for them: The browser eats memory and freezes my camera during video conferencing, and is plain not supported in some of the software I use at work.
The rationale is probably something entirely reasonable, like “While we do not intend to sell user data, the phrasing was too vague and not helpful. What is selling, and what is user data, really?” An organization with strong privacy values would be so far from anything “bad” that the phrasing as it was would not be a problem for them.
It’s irrelevant that right now privacy settings and xyz and telmentry is clear and opt in etc. Because the point is that they are gearing up to change that. The settings will be less clear, user data will be separated into shit like “operability assistance”, “personal information”, “experience improvement metrics” with some of it enabled by default because, etc.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
swordgeek@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
They removed “We don’t sell your data and we never will” from their FAQ and they added “We may sell your data” to the ToS.
“Never” has a very clear and definite meaning. By undoing “never,” I feel like the Mozilla foundation is inviting a class-action lawsuit.
CameronDev@programming.dev 2 days ago
The rationalization they have given is that legally, they may have been seeking data all along, as some jurisdictions define it extremely loosely.
For example, if you use their translation feature, they are sending the page your looking at (data) to a third party, which provides a benefit to Mozilla.
blog.mozilla.org/en/…/update-on-terms-of-use/
| The reason we’ve stepped away from making blanket claims that “We never sell your data” is because, in some places, the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is broad and evolving. As an example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) defines “sale” as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information by [a] business to another business or a third party” in exchange for “monetary” or “other valuable consideration.”
notabot@lemm.ee 2 days ago
The current intention may not be malicious, but it leaves the way open for changes that are to slip in. If they were worried about services like translation being concidered ‘sales’, which is a reasonable concern, they should have split them out of the core browser into an extension and put the ‘might sell your data’ licence on that.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
The privacy centric way for Mozilla to have address this would have been to:
y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
I love how California basically defines a sale as “exchanging things for money” and Firefox is like, “its such a craaazy world we can’t even agree on the definition of exchanging things for money out here! Some call it a ‘sale’ apparently, so if we’re gonna exchange your data for money I guess we have to call it a ‘sale’… Stupid California, changing things to mean what they’ve always meant”
CameronDev@programming.dev 2 days ago
Its even more broad than that, because its any exchange of data for valuable consideration. No money has to change hands, but if it benefits FF, its a sale. And the benefit could simply be “if we do this we will function correctly as a browser”.
Danitos@reddthat.com 2 days ago
Something to note, however, is that the new terms apply to the browser as a whole. If it was due to some of the opt-in services the browser includes (sync, account, translation, etc.), they could have specified the terms apply to those services instead.
Agree this isn’t necessarily malicious yet, but it definitely is not beneficial to users.
swordgeek@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Anything you say after this point is irrelevant. (Nothing personal, though.)
As soon as a company has to rationalise their legal back-pedalling, it is explicit evidence that they are intending to do wrong.
This will not end well.
CameronDev@programming.dev 1 day ago
If the legal definition of a term has changed such that their current activities now fall under it, changing the terms of use legal document does make sense.
They are pretty clear that under California law, they are “selling” data. They have two options, keep the ToU document the same, and try meet the new laws requirements (which as I’ve said in other comments, seems impossible for a browser - not a lawyer though), or update their ToU without changing their current behaviors.
They have gone with the latter, but it does also allow them to be far more “evil”. Its definitely the first step down a bad road, time will tell if they go further.
If you want to play it safe, block their domains via pihole: wiki.mozilla.org/Websites/…/Mozilla_Owned
swordgeek@lemmy.ca 21 hours ago
Having seen this FAR too often, I have a different view:
Capitalism and greed will determine when they go further.
There is no “if” about it. Mitchell Baker is in it to get rich by destroying the platform, and is sharing enough of the corpse’s leavings with others to make sure they protect her.