Comment on China exploits Taiwanese commentators to fuel its propaganda, undermine the island country's stability

• freagle@lemmygrad.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  You LITERALLY made a comparative statement saying that China was a worse actor and when I presented you with evidence undermining your COMPARATIVE claim you call it whataboutism. You are an unserious person protecting your psyche.

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  • MrTolkinghoen@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    In fact, not what I said at all. I said, I agree with your statement that the western media does similar things, but I called out that the ccp doesn’t allow dissent in the media. And you did not actually present evidence that they were worse, just that they did bad things. You basically just ignored what I actually wrote and attacked me for pointing out your whataboutism.

    It is possible to consider one thing as bad while also thinking another is also bad.

    You are likely a CCP bot and I’m conversing with a computer.

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    • freagle@lemmygrad.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      You are likely a CCP bot and I’m conversing with a computer.

      You’re a meme at this point. But, allow me to show you just how ridiculous you sound by taking your words and stringing them together.

      You said:

      Probably the exploit is referring to taking what is said out of context and using very key clips to drive a narrative.

      To which I replied:

      That is, quite literally, the definition of the news media in every country for the last 200 years (minimum)

      To which you replied:

      To varying degrees, yes. The key is the extent which that is true.

      Meaning that it’s not sufficient to note that all news media does this because there is quantity and severity to consider here. And you will go on to help us understand the quantity and severity in your next sentence:

      china is an exceptionally bad actor here, and has been for a long time.

      You began the comparative assessment by saying China is an “exceptionally bad actor”, meaning that amongst all bad actors, China is such a bad actor they can be considered an exception to the, presumably, standard amount of badness of other societies.

      You then double down on your comparative assessment:

      So don’t throw around “everyone has always doing this” to dilute the extent or make it seem less pronounced and “everyone does this to this degree”

      Reiterating your position that China is an “exceptionally bad actor”. You then attempt to preempt any further discussion with the thought-terminating cliche:

      you’re just engaging in basically whataboutism.

      At this point, I called you out for orientalism and then immediately provided evidence against your position that China is exceptionally bad in this regard. But first, let’s remember the context here. Your claim is that China is an exceptionally bad actor, compared to the bulk of other nations, through:

      referring to taking what is said out of context and using very key clips to drive a narrative.

      And here is my evidence for how China could not possibly be a worse actor than the British or the Americans:

      British news media was crucial in launching the opium wars against China. The Iraq war was absolutely 100% supported by news media in multiple Western countries doing the bidding of the war hawks. China can’t possibly be a worse actor in this space than the many many examples of Western news media launching actual wars that killed millions.

      I think it’s pretty clear what I’m saying and what I’m arguing against. You say China is an exceptionally bad actor at driving narratives for political gain. I then compare China to the two largest producers of news media in the world, the UK and the USA, and show that those actors are so bad that they are complicit in launching wars and killing millions. What I left unsaid was that China has never used narrative control over news media to manufacture consent for wars that killed millions.

      On this basis, I argue that China could not possibly be considered exceptional EXCEPT perhaps in the opposite way you meant it. China is exceptional in that it’s use of narrative control has led to far fewer deaths overall, has led to far fewer wars and military conflicts, and has led to far less human rights violations. No doubt you will key in on this last item and make something of it.

      Instead of seeing my argument as actually attacking your position with evidence, you return to your thought-terminating cliche:

      More on with your whataboutism. [sic]

      I assume you meant to write, “Move on with” but honestly I don’t know.

      You then pivot:

      Again I wasn’t saying there isn’t a similar usage of propaganda in western media but also there at least has existed the right and existence of other media which dissents from the state propaganda.

      Now your claim is no longer that China is an “exceptionally bad actor” in “taking what is said of context and using very key clips to drive a narrative” but rather that China does not allow media which dissents from the state propaganda while Western nations do.

      This requires an entirely NEW set of evidence and arguments, which I will not provide you, because you deserve only to be shamed for your impetuousness. Don’t fucking claim that I am a bot when you can’t even keep track of your own fucking position, you milquetoast.

      So let’s review:

      (You) Probably the exploit is referring to taking what is said out of context and using very key clips to drive a narrative.

      (Me) That is, quite literally, the definition of the news media in every country for the last 200 years (minimum)

      (You) To varying degrees, yes. The key is the extent which that is true. china is an exceptionally bad actor here, and has been for a long time.

      (Me) British news media was crucial in launching the opium wars against China. The Iraq war was absolutely 100% supported by news media in multiple Western countries doing the bidding of the war hawks. China can’t possibly be a worse actor in this space than the many many examples of Western news media launching actual wars that killed millions.

      (You) I wasn’t saying there isn’t a similar usage of propaganda in western media but also there at least has existed the right and existence of other media which dissents from the state propaganda.

      So you can fuck right off to wherever people accept this level of asinine “discourse” where you just bang out cliches and vibes and have the memory of a goddamned goldfish and where the only people who could possibly disagree with you and try to hold you accountable are bots, because I don’t want to fucking deal with your shit.

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      • MrTolkinghoen@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Ah China, the perfect nation. Lol

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