Typical brain-rotten liberal, continuing to protect your fragile psyche. You can’t deal with the fact that I just exposed your worm-like wriggling, so you have to pivot, yet again, by now accusing me of believing China is a perfect nation, engaging in whataboutism, and then assuming I’m a paid Chinese propagandist who is under the tyrannical rule of the evil commies.
So here’s some fun facts for you. I am a white cis het American man, born in the tri-state area to white cis het parents. I went to public school, just like most of us, and likely you. I consumed all of the propaganda, just like you did. I experienced all the same social pressures to conform and virtue signal. I was a boy scout, ffs. I learned how to treat an American flag with reverence and respect, something I still do today whenever I am tasked with managing a flag. My indoctrination is deep enough that when I see someone let a flag touch the floor I feel it in my body.
But what makes me different from you is that I allow new information to challenge my deeply held beliefs, and I am willing to wrestle with the consequences of doing that. I don’t just pivot every time someone confronts me with ideas that would challenge my beliefs. I study, I research, I write things out for myself, I debate with others who disagree with me to learn and not to win.
Yes I can talk about Tiananmen Square, about how tank man stood in front of a column of tanks, bringing them to halt. How the tank driver opened the hatch and had a chat with the man. How eventually that man came to understanding with the tank operator and with other protestors and he moved out of the way and the tanks continued on their journey. I can talk about how there were American journalists on the ground reporting on the student protests before, during, and after the supposed “massacre” and they all report that there was no massacre. I can talk about how the students literally killed multiple soldiers who didn’t fight back, how the students seized military rifles and turned their peaceful protest violent. Yeah, I can talk about it, because unlike you, I’ve done some research on it and I don’t assume that everyone who disagreed with the narrative I was raised on is some kind of evil agent.
I like how your examples of China’s bad actions are limited to Xinjiang and Tibet though. You don’t know anything of the actual really bad things China did in the first few decades after the victory of the communists. You don’t know the history of the things that you could actually use to show China has done some really fucked up things. And you don’t know these events because you don’t care about backing your beliefs up with reality. You’re content to just vibe.
Am I going to sit here and try to give you information about Xinjiang, Tibet, and Ukraine? No, of course not. Because it would be a waste of my time. You have demonstrated that you refuse to engage with literally anything that challenges your fragile psyche - you won’t even engage with your own fucking words when they’re presented back at you in a way that shows your complete disregard for truth, consistency, integrity, or honesty.
Stick to your guns. When you ask for information - ignore it. When you’re accused of pivoting, just pivot again. When you’re being accused of hypocrisy, just scream whataboutism. When you don’t know history, just rely on your vibes and accuse others of being special agents that are paid to fight with you. On the internet. For money.
Lol when actually asked about the stuff china is doing though you have repeatedly just hand waved it as I won’t go into that. You say stuff to establish yourself as an expert and yet have done nothing but just called me a brain rot liberal. You in fact have 0 concept of my background or upbringing and have just assumed because I have sat on my mobile phone and haven’t taken the time to go point by point explaining what I meant that I am some inferior person with no intellect of ability to think critically about my world view or escape the brainwashing I have been subjected to.
Please, enlighten me on all the truly had stuff china did, talk about it. Up to this point all you have actually done is speak positively about Tienammen square and hand waved “bad stuff” for china without saying it. Do it. Im worth all this other “time” you spent, but I’m not worth taking the time on actually saying anything bad about china? Still sounds like you aren’t who you say you are.
Nope. Not doing it. You have demonstrated that you’re not here for a conversation. You’re just here to virtue signal, state your unexamined beliefs as universally accepted facts, and never ever ever engage in good faith. I won’t be dragged into a debate until you address the fact that you pivoted to avoid actual debate. Until then, I have no interest in arguing with you about any topic.
It’s pretty easy to look up China’s terrible early foreign policy. Nearly every Western communist who has done research into China has had to address it.
You think me saying that violence during the Tiananmen Square student protests is “speaking positively” about it? It was a terrible event, it just wasn’t what Western propagandists say it is. It wasn’t a massacre by the government, and it wasn’t the military opening fire on unarmed protestors. It wasn’t tanks crushing human bodies in the stretlet. It wasn’t any of those things. And it was still a bad event. People died, both protestors and security personnel. There was violence. The fact that you think me saying this is “positive” because I reject the propaganda about a massacre for which there is no evidence and against which there is ample evidence even from Western journalists - that’s exactly what I’m talking about when I talk about your beliefs not matching reality.
You’re still incapable of sticking to your original point which is that China is an exceptionally bad actor in taking quotes out of context to create a narrative. Until and unless you are capable of having that discussion, you cannot earn credibility by just continuing to pivot to new topics and demanding that I engage you in debate about historical facts. I won’t do it because you have shown yourself to be unwilling to argue in good faith.
Gloves are off and you won’t / can’t talk about what you believe about china in a meaningful way. All the rest is deflection and blame on me. I in fact was and have been open to entertaining more than one viewpoint, you have merely twisted what I’ve said to make it seem like I’m the one who won’t actually have a conversation here.
That’s why I asked questions which you refuse to answer.
The conversation here speaks for itself. If you want to blame me for refusing to engage, by all means, do so.
freagle@lemmygrad.ml 2 weeks ago
Typical brain-rotten liberal, continuing to protect your fragile psyche. You can’t deal with the fact that I just exposed your worm-like wriggling, so you have to pivot, yet again, by now accusing me of believing China is a perfect nation, engaging in whataboutism, and then assuming I’m a paid Chinese propagandist who is under the tyrannical rule of the evil commies.
So here’s some fun facts for you. I am a white cis het American man, born in the tri-state area to white cis het parents. I went to public school, just like most of us, and likely you. I consumed all of the propaganda, just like you did. I experienced all the same social pressures to conform and virtue signal. I was a boy scout, ffs. I learned how to treat an American flag with reverence and respect, something I still do today whenever I am tasked with managing a flag. My indoctrination is deep enough that when I see someone let a flag touch the floor I feel it in my body.
But what makes me different from you is that I allow new information to challenge my deeply held beliefs, and I am willing to wrestle with the consequences of doing that. I don’t just pivot every time someone confronts me with ideas that would challenge my beliefs. I study, I research, I write things out for myself, I debate with others who disagree with me to learn and not to win.
Yes I can talk about Tiananmen Square, about how tank man stood in front of a column of tanks, bringing them to halt. How the tank driver opened the hatch and had a chat with the man. How eventually that man came to understanding with the tank operator and with other protestors and he moved out of the way and the tanks continued on their journey. I can talk about how there were American journalists on the ground reporting on the student protests before, during, and after the supposed “massacre” and they all report that there was no massacre. I can talk about how the students literally killed multiple soldiers who didn’t fight back, how the students seized military rifles and turned their peaceful protest violent. Yeah, I can talk about it, because unlike you, I’ve done some research on it and I don’t assume that everyone who disagreed with the narrative I was raised on is some kind of evil agent.
I like how your examples of China’s bad actions are limited to Xinjiang and Tibet though. You don’t know anything of the actual really bad things China did in the first few decades after the victory of the communists. You don’t know the history of the things that you could actually use to show China has done some really fucked up things. And you don’t know these events because you don’t care about backing your beliefs up with reality. You’re content to just vibe.
Am I going to sit here and try to give you information about Xinjiang, Tibet, and Ukraine? No, of course not. Because it would be a waste of my time. You have demonstrated that you refuse to engage with literally anything that challenges your fragile psyche - you won’t even engage with your own fucking words when they’re presented back at you in a way that shows your complete disregard for truth, consistency, integrity, or honesty.
Stick to your guns. When you ask for information - ignore it. When you’re accused of pivoting, just pivot again. When you’re being accused of hypocrisy, just scream whataboutism. When you don’t know history, just rely on your vibes and accuse others of being special agents that are paid to fight with you. On the internet. For money.
Do you, boo.
MrTolkinghoen@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Lol when actually asked about the stuff china is doing though you have repeatedly just hand waved it as I won’t go into that. You say stuff to establish yourself as an expert and yet have done nothing but just called me a brain rot liberal. You in fact have 0 concept of my background or upbringing and have just assumed because I have sat on my mobile phone and haven’t taken the time to go point by point explaining what I meant that I am some inferior person with no intellect of ability to think critically about my world view or escape the brainwashing I have been subjected to.
Please, enlighten me on all the truly had stuff china did, talk about it. Up to this point all you have actually done is speak positively about Tienammen square and hand waved “bad stuff” for china without saying it. Do it. Im worth all this other “time” you spent, but I’m not worth taking the time on actually saying anything bad about china? Still sounds like you aren’t who you say you are.
freagle@lemmygrad.ml 2 weeks ago
Nope. Not doing it. You have demonstrated that you’re not here for a conversation. You’re just here to virtue signal, state your unexamined beliefs as universally accepted facts, and never ever ever engage in good faith. I won’t be dragged into a debate until you address the fact that you pivoted to avoid actual debate. Until then, I have no interest in arguing with you about any topic.
It’s pretty easy to look up China’s terrible early foreign policy. Nearly every Western communist who has done research into China has had to address it.
You think me saying that violence during the Tiananmen Square student protests is “speaking positively” about it? It was a terrible event, it just wasn’t what Western propagandists say it is. It wasn’t a massacre by the government, and it wasn’t the military opening fire on unarmed protestors. It wasn’t tanks crushing human bodies in the stretlet. It wasn’t any of those things. And it was still a bad event. People died, both protestors and security personnel. There was violence. The fact that you think me saying this is “positive” because I reject the propaganda about a massacre for which there is no evidence and against which there is ample evidence even from Western journalists - that’s exactly what I’m talking about when I talk about your beliefs not matching reality.
You’re still incapable of sticking to your original point which is that China is an exceptionally bad actor in taking quotes out of context to create a narrative. Until and unless you are capable of having that discussion, you cannot earn credibility by just continuing to pivot to new topics and demanding that I engage you in debate about historical facts. I won’t do it because you have shown yourself to be unwilling to argue in good faith.
MrTolkinghoen@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Gloves are off and you won’t / can’t talk about what you believe about china in a meaningful way. All the rest is deflection and blame on me. I in fact was and have been open to entertaining more than one viewpoint, you have merely twisted what I’ve said to make it seem like I’m the one who won’t actually have a conversation here.
That’s why I asked questions which you refuse to answer.
The conversation here speaks for itself. If you want to blame me for refusing to engage, by all means, do so.