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Comment on Hexbear federation megathread
ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 1 year agoIf someone’s living in their own home, I don’t have a problem with that at all. The problem is purchasing a home just to extract rents and profits.
And btw, I think all those things should be collectivized and socially available. Landlords contribute no value (as shown by their unwillingness to do maintenance/repairs), and merely extract. After all, what really is the benefit, to society, of a landlord? They serve no purpose (hell, even a CEO has more purpose than a landlord, and they – as Elon shows – don’t really contribute much either). It’s entirely extractive. Your “why are they evil for using something they have worked for to help themselves” is because of how they’re using it. Just like how if you own a gun and defend your home, we consider that moral, but if you own a gun and shoot a person on the street, we consider it immoral. If you build a house and live in it, that’s moral and fine(though, in a perfect world, this would be produced through the government/taxes rather than individual accumulation, but we’re not talking about utopia, we’re talking about moral judgments on our world as it exists). If you build a house or purchase a house, then use it to extract ever-increasing rents from people for a thing we require to live (shelter), that’s immoral.
I think it’s a pretty simple distinction actually.
To return to the starbucks example, the company “produced” that material. Is it “moral” of them to throw it away rather than donate it? After all, they made it - just like your example of houses.
Finally, I’ll just note, the very idea of private property when applied to land, etc. is odious to me on philosophical grounds.
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Firemyth@lemm.ee 1 year ago
So your argument clearly states that we are living in capitalism… and at the same time states that your moral problem is one of idealism/communism. Your argument cannot exist in one and then transmute half way through to make it fit your narrative.
We live in capitalism. I have worked and saved to buy off my house which I now rent out at market (below market actually) and provide a home that my tenants could not afford to buy on their own. I haven’t increased rent since I started renting.
You are now blanket yelling I should be stripped of my investment. My effort. My money that I’ve worked for. And these other slack-jaws are frothing at the mouth because they can’t conceive of a difference between me and the multibillion dollar company who is actually doing what you are saying.
ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 1 year ago
What I’m saying is there shouldn’t be a situation like this in the first place. Your tenants shouldn’t have to come to you to rent, housing should be freely available to all.
It’s a difference of degree, not of kind. And the goal is to change the relationship to society/production/the state such that this relationship no longer needs to exist. After all, investing in housing/real estate is the one “safe” thing to do under capitalism if you have surplus money. I doubt you’re a true “capitalist” in the sense of having true economic leverage, and the question for you is ultimately, would you side with the workers, your tenants, etc. and willingly join in the socialization of basic human needs? Or will you ally with the capitalists above you and protect private property at all costs.
A difference in degree but not in kind exists historically. Guatemala. The operations of the United Fruit company through exploitation were very profitable. They “built” them. The new government offered to either buy them out at the rate they had claimed on their taxes or reassess their taxes to redistribute their profits more equitably. Instead, the CIA coup’d them.
The question for you ultimately is, if given the chance to exit from the exploitative relationship imposed upon you by capitalism, will you? Would you let the government buy you out or raise your taxes to fund collective housing? Or will you instead employ the forces of reaction?
Firemyth@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Then fucking say THAT. Not all landlords are evil. I’d be willing to bet 90% of these frothing loons don’t realize why you are trying to accomplish and are just riding the hate train.
He’ll yeah I’m all for more taxes to pay for healthcare/education/collective housing. Hell no am I ok with just giving my shit away because you happen to think I should. Sure- pay me for my investments at fair market value- and I’ll just go an reinvest in something else that you guys will inevitably think should belong to all.
ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 1 year ago
I did note later in another thread, a comrade had a good revision. The relationship is evil, not the actual person. Here’s what was said:
Again, I’ve got some salt because my landlord kicked me out last year just because he couldn’t extract enough profit from me. Needless to say, his anger at basic tenant protections has stuck in my craw ever since.